Redirects

Fairfield

Fairfield

Participating member
Location
Bucks County pa USA
What is your choice, natural crotch, or sling/biener redirects?

Personaly I side with the slings. I can choose at any point to have a high point. I carry 3-5 slings at a time on my harrnes for large trees depending on what my climbing plan is from the ground. Most of the time I will set one (not including my main TIP) and return to it after going out to whatever spot I was working on and just repeat through out the rest of the tree. Alos found an advantage the other day while limb walking out on a Beech to clear it off a house. Once I was out to where I needed to be instead of stying lanyard in (like normal) I just set a sling in front of me. Gave me less stuff infront of my work station to have to think about while cutting/balancing.
 
Retrieval is what determines the choice for me.

If I'm going to come back to the redi point I might set a sling/biner. If the redi is going to be out of reach I'll go with natural.

Of course, the mid-ground would be the case where I needed a redi in a certain location, out in the open where there is no branch and I won't be able to manually retrieve the redi. Then I'll set a retrievable redi.

Its rare that I don't compromise and just go with natural though. So much simpler and quicker.
 
A nice medium seems to be about a 30 ft beeline with a heavy snap and no splice at the other end. So you can just throw the snap over your desired union, drop it down snap it on your climbing line. Draw it up and tie the other end off. Im now using a trango clinch on a strap for easy attachment and back it up with an alpine butterfly. I also like the idea that if the tree failed at the redirect it may be sorta backed up where its tied off.
 
I am wondering if some of you have a solution for something I ran into the other day. I have copied below some of the thoughts I ran into while looking for a solution. I posted a traverse I did a couple of days ago in the video section but the question really belongs here.


Problem: While climbing up a beech tree to traverse to a pine about 60' away I had to go out on a limb about 30' to get into position to set up my traverse. I used a cinched canopy anchor with a link on the beech tree, I kept the Unicender on the SRT line as I was going to make one redirect to get a better angle to get out and be safe on the limb. When I got to the pine tree it was pretty hard to pull the line over with the screw link from the canopy anchor and that was with only one natural redirect.
I probably would have done better to change out the screw link for a ring to ring friction saver cinched anchor so that I could recover the line better by putting a stopper knot in the tail that I took with me to the traversed tree. I like using DdRT on both sides for a traverse but as I get further away and start using redirects that gets more complicated, especially the removal concept of redirects from another tree.
So, the question.
Is there anything like a mid-line attachable ringed friction saver. It is not about the friction of course SRT but about the removal of the redirects. Just like the ringed friction saver is used at a cinched anchor for removal when you do redirects, could you not use this to gathered up other redirects with the same stopper knot as you pull the line back to the traversed tree?
Thinking of something like webbing with a biner on both ends and a large dog leash snap clipped around the SRT traverse line. As you recover the traverse SRT line the stopper knot passes the biners that is still connected to the SRT line by the large enough snap but too small to pass the stopper knot. As the friction saver is gathered by the stopper knot and returns it captures the other simple redirects along the way.
Seems that the flexibility of SRT adds a whole new dimension to redirects used for DdRT but with a different purpose.




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What is your choice, natural crotch, or sling/biener redirects?

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that system can also be done with two carabiners instead of the leather. can still be made retrievable. Treebing

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I guess I'm a KISS fan then because one nylon loop and two biners on old school DDRT works like a charm with the taped tail passing through one of the redirect biners before yanking out the original TIP CS which then will not pass through the second redirect biner, allowing you to pull both redirect biners and loop from the ground..jomoco

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- you have the option of base tying, cinch tying or using a ring to ring F-saver for your TIP GibsonTreeCare

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With some planning I can redi high, work an area, drop down using the same redi, then, move back or down and clear the upper redi. In order for this to work the tail of the rope has to be left on the right side of the redi to clear it out though. I've found this much easier to do using SRT vrs. DdRT Tom Dunlap

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Removable means they pull out automatically once you have disconnected from your rope and are pulling out your main anchor point; retrievable means that it is possible (with additional setup) to remove the redirect whilst keeping your main anchor point.VTIO Introduction to Redirects

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SRT soft redirect
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=318207&page=0&vc=1
SIMPLE ARTIFICIAL REDIRECTS
ArborMaster 2 Ring Friction Savers Steel Rings by Buckingham
 
applaudit.gif


That's a brilliant idea, Surveyor, if only the hangers would look "attractive" until they disappear.
smile.gif
 
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stitch lock a tape sling with the tail of your line and you can put in as many as you want



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLhCq3iCO0w&feature=c4-overview&list=UUpqYlXvDsM3B8igtSa-saHA

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That's a great idea. There is something cool about stitch locks.
I am using the tail of the climbing line for the traverse in a sort of V-rig set-up with SRT on one side doing redirects as needed and DdRT on the other to pull myself to the other tree.
I went to a simple means of attaching my throw line to each SRT redirect. My throw line reels from a carpenters chalk line to the redirects for recovery. By the time I get to the redirect I'm kind of done with the throw line anyway. Since I have two chalk lines together I can do two redirects and simply bring them back that way. Two is about as many re-directs as I need as I'm using them for traverses and I completely recover my climbing line and each redirect from each tree as I go.
Thanks for the suggestion.
 
For residential work, most trees in our area can be covered with one or 2 redi's. Retrieval usually isn't a huge concern for me in these settings, since small to medium sized trees may require a quick, non-retrievable redi for a particular work station, and I'll climb back towards the center to move onto the next station. Otherwise, a ponytail works well.

I try to select what to carry into the crown based on the best work plan I can decipher from the ground. The most I'll carry is a couple sling/'biner combo's for non-retrievable redi's. The other methods I like are the Natural Crotch method and Tied-Off method.

Depending on how much line is in your system, it can be time consuming to advance your tail through a Natural Crotch. I'll climb through or disconnect/redirect/re-connect through Natural Crotches without leaving a ponytail behind if I plan to leave that redi in for the whole climb. I may set the above mentioned for extended work in an area, if I really didn't hit my desired TIP from with the throw line and I want something a bit more ideal, or if it's for the final station and I'm headed to the ground when finished in that area.

The quickest method for me would be the sling/'biner combo. I'll use this when a branch is sturdy enough to keep "bounce" out of my system, and my work plan will have me climbing back to it. It's so quick to install and remove, and takes up next to no space on the saddle.

If a branch exhibits the perfect location for a redi, but doesn't appear strong enough on it's own, I'll evaluate if it can act as a "gin-pole" by tying my line directly to it. I tie off with a Clove Hitch on a bight, and spike it. You can also set a sling/'biner combo and connect to that with an Alpine Butterfly in your climb line. The knot location can be critical with this, in order to get the right amount of support from the previous redi. This can be used only if the wood has enough compression strength to hold with the appropriate safety factor, and must be backed up by tension in the line between the knot and the previous redirect/TIP/etc... You also need to evaluate what other forces may apply once you descend below that point, such as side pull on said branch if you're working off angle, or laterally. Being able to tie off in this manner is one of the great merits of climbing on a static line system.
 
is it common practice to use an eye-and-eye cord as a redirect, by wrapping the eye cord around the climbing line first, then clipping a carabiner through the eyes, and throw the biner and doubled cord over the branch and then clipping the biner onto the climbing line? This way the sling would not be girthed to the branch, but still hold the rope secure, and when the climbing rope is pulled back through, the redirect cord drops to the ground.
 
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is it common practice to use an eye-and-eye cord as a redirect, by wrapping the eye cord around the climbing line first, then clipping a carabiner through the eyes, and throw the biner and doubled cord over the branch and then clipping the biner onto the climbing line? This way the sling would not be girthed to the branch, but still hold the rope secure, and when the climbing rope is pulled back through, the redirect cord drops to the ground.

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From the sounds of it, this would have the climbing line in a bight of hitch cord, which is not a "best practice" due to the rope/rope wear. It might not even fall off during retrieval of the climb line.

One could use an E2E sling with a 'biner on each end and set a small retrieval snap in one of the 'biners. The sling could be "middled" on the branch, and the climb line could be connected into each 'biner.
 
One E2E and two carabiners could be used to easily
set-up a retrievable redirect by passing the tail of the climbing
Line back through one of the carabiners and keeping it until
You're ready to retrieve. I believe I learned this from country boy on this forum. Pretty handy though.
 
Generally I climb SRT with a canopy anchor using a alpine butterfly and screw link. I leave it that way for my traverse or moving around the tree, but take the tail or running end of the climbing line with me if I need to recover it remotely. The other tail of my climbing line makes up my DdRT for the other side of the traverse or movement in the tree. The advantage to keeping one side SRT is there is no rope movement through the redirect. I make the redirect with Dyneema loop runners saddled over the branch with carabiners on each side. Not usually a problem but i can loop it over once if there is no limb to keep it in place. I use a mini carabiner on my throw line attached to the redirect for retrieval after pulling my climb line back thru it. I do have to pay attention to my climbing line and manage the length of the ends and always keep a bitter end stopper knot as I will switch the running end to the working side if it saves me from having to pull the whole line back thru a redirect.
It is not a fancy method but works without risking an accidental release.
 
That's an interesting concept, YoYo. I've consider that before, but you'd really have to want the benefits of SRT during the traverse to drag that much rope around rather than setting up in a typical DdRT system prior to traverse.

I've made SRT traverses many times off a base tie or Alpine Butterfly against a Rr FS, but never had to work farther than the second tree. If I intended to continue traversing, or knew I would run out of line, I'd switch over to DdRT at my TIP before the traverse. The Oval Screw Link on a Butterfly, or a pure choked end at the TIP make this quick & easy.
 
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