I meet the man from memphis who cut his arm off with a climbing saw when a top got hung up and broke the hinge and pushed the saw into his arm full throttle. he is a super nice guy and loves trees. this man wants to climb again. he is versed is mechanical ascenders and was asking me if there is a system he could use to climb again. i instantly thought of some form of rads with a pantin to tend slack. i really think the rig with a shunt would be the ticket. do you guys think this could be preformed one handed?
rads one armed?
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
I do!
In his case I would make sure that he used a chest ascender to keep his torso upright. The chest ascender also captures every bit of ascent. If the climber needs to take a rest all they do is sit. A very comfortable and natural stance.
Finding a proper harness for the chest ascender will be the key. TreeFlex is my first choice and I know that Petzl makes others with a front loop. Don't try to cobble on some attachment in this case.
The Frog/Tree Walker can be used with one hand also. but this is an ascent only system. RADS makes a nice two way setup.
let me know if I can help configure a system. Let's get our brudda back in the canopy!
In his case I would make sure that he used a chest ascender to keep his torso upright. The chest ascender also captures every bit of ascent. If the climber needs to take a rest all they do is sit. A very comfortable and natural stance.
Finding a proper harness for the chest ascender will be the key. TreeFlex is my first choice and I know that Petzl makes others with a front loop. Don't try to cobble on some attachment in this case.
The Frog/Tree Walker can be used with one hand also. but this is an ascent only system. RADS makes a nice two way setup.
let me know if I can help configure a system. Let's get our brudda back in the canopy!
- Location
- Asheville, NC
I agree with Tom, the chest ascender on my Sequoia SRT is the bomb. I have sold single-rope ascent to many an arborist now because it makes going up look so easy. It is really easy with the Croll!
One question though - how is he going to use a chainsaw safely ever again? Just handsaw cuts from now on? Maybe he'll just focus on preservation from now on, or be a rec climber.
Just wondering on this one. Great to hear he is going back up.
One question though - how is he going to use a chainsaw safely ever again? Just handsaw cuts from now on? Maybe he'll just focus on preservation from now on, or be a rec climber.
Just wondering on this one. Great to hear he is going back up.
- Location
- Chattanooga
I'm not so sure about a one-armed RADS.
If we're talking about a chest ascender above the Rig, and the footloop ascender above the chest ascender, I'm not sure there's gonna be much room for a stroke.
Even if the chest ascender would work, and I'm not sure it will, the chest ascender prevents descending. It sounds simple enough to say - disengage the cam, but let's see how that would work with one arm. His weight is on the ascender, so how does he get his weight off the ascender with only one hand? As I recall, his arm was severed above the elbow so he couldn't even 'hook' the rope with the elbow to hold himself in place while the hand was disengaging the cam.
Also descending on a Rig would require his one hand on the lever and he'd have no down rope brake hand. I've tried that - got a video of it - it wasn't pretty.
Now I can see a one-arm sit-stand Texas; I believe that'd be quite doable. You'd stand and advance the tethered harness ascender, then sit and the advance the foot ascender. How about descending?
Just sit-stand down, lower the foot ascender a bit, hold on to the upper ascender and thumb the cam open and lower yourself and release the cam.
Perhaps and even more viable system would be a 2:1 sit-stand frog I came up with many years ago. I tried this again lately, videoed it and posted it recently on YouTube but didn't post it in TB. So here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2CB_Aub48I
Notice in the video my hand(s) only leave the upper ascender to change the footloop to the other foot. Note also that one hand may be able to do the job I was doing with two. Maybe I can give that a try tomorrow.
In the video, at the top of the climb, I do a change-over to the Rig to descend, but for one-arm only we've already seen the problem of descending with a Rig with only one arm - no brake hand.
But, again to descend, you could sit-stand down, but because of the 2:1 on the feet, you have much more control of your vertical position and weight which would be better for just one hand.
But realistically, as sad and defeative as it sounds, it may be time to change professions. Even if he can get up and down the tree with one hand, he still has to perform work with one hand. I've done a lot of cutting on some pretty big limbs and trunks with aggressive Silky saws. But, you know what, ascending, descending, operating a hand saw, is an awful lot of work, stress, strain, and fatigue on one arm.
If we're talking about a chest ascender above the Rig, and the footloop ascender above the chest ascender, I'm not sure there's gonna be much room for a stroke.
Even if the chest ascender would work, and I'm not sure it will, the chest ascender prevents descending. It sounds simple enough to say - disengage the cam, but let's see how that would work with one arm. His weight is on the ascender, so how does he get his weight off the ascender with only one hand? As I recall, his arm was severed above the elbow so he couldn't even 'hook' the rope with the elbow to hold himself in place while the hand was disengaging the cam.
Also descending on a Rig would require his one hand on the lever and he'd have no down rope brake hand. I've tried that - got a video of it - it wasn't pretty.
Now I can see a one-arm sit-stand Texas; I believe that'd be quite doable. You'd stand and advance the tethered harness ascender, then sit and the advance the foot ascender. How about descending?
Just sit-stand down, lower the foot ascender a bit, hold on to the upper ascender and thumb the cam open and lower yourself and release the cam.
Perhaps and even more viable system would be a 2:1 sit-stand frog I came up with many years ago. I tried this again lately, videoed it and posted it recently on YouTube but didn't post it in TB. So here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2CB_Aub48I
Notice in the video my hand(s) only leave the upper ascender to change the footloop to the other foot. Note also that one hand may be able to do the job I was doing with two. Maybe I can give that a try tomorrow.
In the video, at the top of the climb, I do a change-over to the Rig to descend, but for one-arm only we've already seen the problem of descending with a Rig with only one arm - no brake hand.
But, again to descend, you could sit-stand down, but because of the 2:1 on the feet, you have much more control of your vertical position and weight which would be better for just one hand.
But realistically, as sad and defeative as it sounds, it may be time to change professions. Even if he can get up and down the tree with one hand, he still has to perform work with one hand. I've done a lot of cutting on some pretty big limbs and trunks with aggressive Silky saws. But, you know what, ascending, descending, operating a hand saw, is an awful lot of work, stress, strain, and fatigue on one arm.
- Location
- Springfield MO
I helped get a climber get in a tree with one arm (Shoulder surgery) last year. Just sent him up with an ascender and a pantin . Worked great, I'm sure with a little practice he could do some work that way. He will have to do everything else one armed why not tree work.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not so sure about a one-armed RADS.
[/ QUOTE ]
It can be done.
The Shunt and Rig will work great for one arm movement for both ascent and descent with the addition of a Pantin which can be taken on and off the rope without using hands.
Ron, the ascent is just like the vid you just posted but the Pantin leg is working at a 3:1. Slow but effortless and easy to control.
What I found hard to do was setting the Shunt and pulley with one hand. I would recommend at least two Caritools to hang parts while setting up. The Shunt is a challenge to maneuver onto the rope with one hand but it can be done. Once the Shunt is on adding the pulley was still hard with one hand and required a screw gate carabiner instead of an auto locking.
On descent tailing the rope and working the Rig lever can be done with the same hand. I already do this with great success.
Dave
I'm not so sure about a one-armed RADS.
[/ QUOTE ]
It can be done.
The Shunt and Rig will work great for one arm movement for both ascent and descent with the addition of a Pantin which can be taken on and off the rope without using hands.
Ron, the ascent is just like the vid you just posted but the Pantin leg is working at a 3:1. Slow but effortless and easy to control.
What I found hard to do was setting the Shunt and pulley with one hand. I would recommend at least two Caritools to hang parts while setting up. The Shunt is a challenge to maneuver onto the rope with one hand but it can be done. Once the Shunt is on adding the pulley was still hard with one hand and required a screw gate carabiner instead of an auto locking.
On descent tailing the rope and working the Rig lever can be done with the same hand. I already do this with great success.
Dave
- Location
- Chattanooga
Interesting Dave. I've heard of the Pantin on the down rope before, but never tried it. I can certainly see how it would be slow, but that's about the only way I can see a RADS working with one hand. One has to pull the slack through the Grigri each stroke and what you describe simply substitutes a leg for an arm - pretty clever!
- Location
- Chattanooga
[ QUOTE ]
I helped get a climber get in a tree with one arm (Shoulder surgery) last year. Just sent him up with an ascender and a pantin . Worked great, I'm sure with a little practice he could do some work that way. He will have to do everything else one armed why not tree work.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess in a nutshell, would he ever be able to do as many pushups or pullups with one arm as he could have with two?
The point being of course, that there will be things and performance levels he can never achieve again. E.g. he can no longer use a chain saw safely.
I just want to be sure, that if 'we' influence, encourage, or enable him to climb a tree, we wouldn't be doing him a disservice and simply postponing the inevitiable. E.g. how is tree work gonna work out for him as he starts to get older? What if he strains/injures his remaining arm?
OTOH, if he got some rehab training for jobs that aren't as physically demanding, he could perform right up there with others.
I helped get a climber get in a tree with one arm (Shoulder surgery) last year. Just sent him up with an ascender and a pantin . Worked great, I'm sure with a little practice he could do some work that way. He will have to do everything else one armed why not tree work.
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess in a nutshell, would he ever be able to do as many pushups or pullups with one arm as he could have with two?
The point being of course, that there will be things and performance levels he can never achieve again. E.g. he can no longer use a chain saw safely.
I just want to be sure, that if 'we' influence, encourage, or enable him to climb a tree, we wouldn't be doing him a disservice and simply postponing the inevitiable. E.g. how is tree work gonna work out for him as he starts to get older? What if he strains/injures his remaining arm?
OTOH, if he got some rehab training for jobs that aren't as physically demanding, he could perform right up there with others.
as he gets older? he is 47 years old and climbing trees is all he knows. i think we would be doing him a disservice to not try and help him. give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man how to fish with one arm and you feed him for the rest of his life.
- Location
- Chattanooga
I understand that tree work is all he knows. I understand how difficult this is and is going to be for him. But his life is not ever gonna be the same again. He now has a serious limitation.
I'm trying to offer the idea that a one-armed person may be better off learning a new trade that he can be more productive at and safer.
Just because something is all a man knows, does not mean he can't learn something else. I see this all the time. Guys injured on the job, getting re-trained to do a job within their capabilities. And, you know what, a lot of them make more money and have more time with their families.
There are lots of work he could do and rehab re-training is available, often at no cost to the person.
I'm trying to offer the idea that a one-armed person may be better off learning a new trade that he can be more productive at and safer.
Just because something is all a man knows, does not mean he can't learn something else. I see this all the time. Guys injured on the job, getting re-trained to do a job within their capabilities. And, you know what, a lot of them make more money and have more time with their families.
There are lots of work he could do and rehab re-training is available, often at no cost to the person.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
The original question was asking if he could climb again. using some SRT setup he would be able to climb.
Working in the tree is much more complicated and I won't even approach that topic.
Ron has a practical way of looking at some outcomes. There are other avenues to employment in the industry than returning to climbing.
Working in the tree is much more complicated and I won't even approach that topic.
Ron has a practical way of looking at some outcomes. There are other avenues to employment in the industry than returning to climbing.
- Location
- Chattanooga
Thanks Tom, working in a tree is more complicated, that's what I was trying to point out.
I'm having a hard time just wrapping my mind around the implications of working in a tree with only one hand. Not only about the limitations, but also the safety implications to him and others.
I'm having a hard time just wrapping my mind around the implications of working in a tree with only one hand. Not only about the limitations, but also the safety implications to him and others.
[ QUOTE ]
as he gets older? he is 47 years old and climbing trees is all he knows.
[/ QUOTE ]
For me that would be the last argument I would use for continuing climbing in these circumstances.
Mental entrapment is what that is. Many believe that all they can do is what they have been doing and that is so if that is what you believe. Things change, sometimes rapidly and radically. The question is, can you deal with it? If that were the only reason, Ron's view of retraining would be far more beneficial to enabling continued advancement as an individual.
With all that said, IF his reason to continue climbing is that it is his passion, then I see no reason that he could not learn to compensate for the loss of the arm.
Many who have been climbing a long time develop this passion. I have known many individuals younger than myself that have since retired from climbing. Guess what, the only thing they talk about are the days when they used to climb.
We are very fortunate to have tree climbing developments that allow almost any individual access to a tree. With thought and desire that access could progress to include productivity. Certainly on an altered scale, but there are many things that can be accomplished by a competent climber besides chainsaw work.
It is prudent not to underestimate a person's abilities when the desire is there.
Dave
as he gets older? he is 47 years old and climbing trees is all he knows.
[/ QUOTE ]
For me that would be the last argument I would use for continuing climbing in these circumstances.
Mental entrapment is what that is. Many believe that all they can do is what they have been doing and that is so if that is what you believe. Things change, sometimes rapidly and radically. The question is, can you deal with it? If that were the only reason, Ron's view of retraining would be far more beneficial to enabling continued advancement as an individual.
With all that said, IF his reason to continue climbing is that it is his passion, then I see no reason that he could not learn to compensate for the loss of the arm.
Many who have been climbing a long time develop this passion. I have known many individuals younger than myself that have since retired from climbing. Guess what, the only thing they talk about are the days when they used to climb.
We are very fortunate to have tree climbing developments that allow almost any individual access to a tree. With thought and desire that access could progress to include productivity. Certainly on an altered scale, but there are many things that can be accomplished by a competent climber besides chainsaw work.
It is prudent not to underestimate a person's abilities when the desire is there.
Dave
