Pruning older and neglected apple trees

All the fruiting is on young wood.

It will rejuvenate young wood, and fruiting spurs in time. If fruit is the goal, it's possible.

Where is the placement in relation to the house/ view?

What's the shade tree aesthetic value to the homeowner?


Pics?
I’ll try to get a picture or two
Reading your post was like “wow!”. I’m glad I read it, otherwise I would have spouted all the same things!

Rather coincidentally, we just got a call to reign in some trees that were neglected for a few years. Mostly pear, plum, peach and cherry varieties since apples would be very susceptible to rust issues with all the Eastern Red Cedars on surrounding land.

The client had just bought the property and had several concerns, but also some misconceptions. The best part is that she and her husband want to be deeply involved in their own trees, and plan to do as much of the pruning and spraying as they can. They were not sure about how to restore the trees to a more manageable size. They also own a copy of ‘The Holistic Orchard’ by Michael Phillips. We were already off to a great start!

The things we had to establish were:
- How high are they willing to work for maintenance and harvesting? We settled on 8’ to 12’.
- How often are they willing to prune? They agreed to perform as many cycles as required based on growing conditions.
- Are they willing to accept mostly, but not all, perfect fruit. Yes! This just keeps getting better!

There are, however, different schools of thought on restorative measures. Some say reduce them slowly over time (low dosage, medium frequency). Some say hit them hard (high dosage, choose your own frequency). I recommended we do no more than 20% bud loss for the first visit. That took some explaining, and found the simplest lesson was for them to leave all material directly beneath the tree it came from and imagine gathering it up and holding like a bouquet. The bouquet should be n more than 20% the sizes of what remains in the tree.

Remember that this is all a game of light. When a tree is trained a particular way for many years and then let go, it will naturally form numerous, vigorous sprouts. Their height before and laterals form is in part due to stem density, and reduced light in the areas a lateral would be preferred. By thinning the number of stems, and also reducing the height of the remaining ones, you can encourage lateral growth through phototropism and hormone response (spreading out auxin). Any laterals that form will be more prone to horizontal growth if they are below other foliage. These new laterals can eventually become your highest structural branches. Once they harden off in your desired form and location, you can remove the parent stems above their points of attachment. If your client can stand having a taller tree, you can form other tiers above by training other laterals oriented in other directions.

Be aware of pruning with specific goals during specific times of the year. A common misconception is that one prunes in Winter for a reason, while that reason may actually be that it was when the farmer had the time to do it. There should really be 4 or 5 doses per year!

Eventually, once the desired structure has been established, your pruning targets may include, but may not be limited to:
- Unwanted vegetation.
- Unwanted or unproductive structure.
- Unwanted vegetation.
- Overly dense buds on spurs.
- Overly dense fruit on spurs.
- Unwanted vegetation.
- Entire spurs.
- Oh, and don’t forget unwanted vegetation!

With all this said, your client has to understand that this is basically impossible with a single visit. Even one visit annually is inadequate. Also, one arborist may have a multi-step plan that another arborist might not be able to pick up and run with.

Cool thread. Hope it gives you a good dose of useful information. Good luck and have fun!
wow, I’m getting so much good advice, lots of it is helping me build confidence, because as a certified ISA arborists, I do understand some stuff, but wasn’t super confident. But I’ve been learning some stuff here thanks everyone that has contributed!
 
I’ll try to get a picture or two

wow, I’m getting so much good advice, lots of it is helping me build confidence, because as a certified ISA arborists, I do understand some stuff, but wasn’t super confident. But I’ve been learning some stuff here thanks everyone that has contributed!
One thing I will say about working with fruit trees is that in the beginning, they can appear to require some quiver of dark arts. After time it becomes a challenge rather easy to manage.

This doesn’t come with a bunch of book reading though. It comes from hands on, practical experience ALONG with book reading. There is so much to absorb that a true understanding takes time working and observing.
 
I’ll try to get a picture or two

wow, I’m getting so much good advice, lots of it is helping me build confidence, because as a certified ISA arborists, I do understand some stuff, but wasn’t super confident. But I’ve been learning some stuff here thanks everyone that has contributed!
One mindset that helped me wrap my head around fruit trees is thinking about them entirely differently from all other trees.
Most species are abominations from their ancestral roots. Many are purely domesticated species as different as dogs from wolves.
Adding to that most of today’s varieties are all clones grafted to various rootstocks, which is a huge vulnerability when it comes to pests and diseases.
Arguably they are one of the few types of trees that are dependent on pruning
 
An fruit producing, orchard tree is treated entirely differently than a shade tree.

Take off the "arborist" hat, put on an "orchardist" hat.

You are trying to produce fruiting spurs that are plentiful, but not too plentiful. They should be well- spaced, exposed to sunlight, and with good air flow.

I left too much on fruit trees for a long time, especially neglected fruit trees. Catching up with years of neglect, at 20% max bud removal, doesn't work, IME.
 
An fruit producing, orchard tree is treated entirely differently than a shade tree.

Take off the "arborist" hat, put on an "orchardist" hat.

You are trying to produce fruiting spurs that are plentiful, but not too plentiful. They should be well- spaced, exposed to sunlight, and with good air flow.

I left too much on fruit trees for a long time, especially neglected fruit trees. Catching up with years of neglect, at 20% max bud removal, doesn't work, IME.
We’re going for 20% per visit for now. More throughout the year and coming years will eventually accomplish the goals.
 
Regarding the 20% thing.. this is highly dependent on goal and frequency.
Take more and you will be chasing your tail with regrowth sprouts.
It’s all checks and balances.. many of times I’ve thinned only to deal with broken scaffolds due to kicking out the supporting limbs under heavy fruit yields.
I thin spurs, but don’t prune to generate them, as the tree is going to one way or the other!
 
That one looks like a good one to hone in some practice.
I’d advocate for training a central leader on that one. Remove a 3rd of the competing uprights, identify 3rd for later removal by heading or hard reduction cuts. Thin, more thinning, then lots of lateral reduction.

The second photo, looks like a good candidate for 2-3 leaders.
 
Lol, I feel selfish for asking another question because of all the great feedback. Spraying! Is it really necessary? Should I shouldn’t I? Where I’m from, you need a license just to get the stuff! And you need a license to apply it, and the commercial stuff sounds much more powerful than the over the counter home owner stuff…I had a friend tell me it’s fairly involved (the way an orchard grower sprays)
 
That one looks like a good one to hone in some practice.
I’d advocate for training a central leader on that one. Remove a 3rd of the competing uprights, identify 3rd for later removal by heading or hard reduction cuts. Thin, more thinning, then lots of lateral reduction.

The second photo, looks like a good candidate for 2-3 leaders.
Ok, thanks Evo! Ya, I feel more confident after reading hear and watching lots of videos…
 
Hate bringing back apples like that, not much fun for a while. One prune a year will make for years of chasing vigorous growth, auxin is basipetal and lots of tops making auxin there. Meh
 
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Lol, I feel selfish for asking another question because of all the great feedback. Spraying! Is it really necessary? Should I shouldn’t I? Where I’m from, you need a license just to get the stuff! And you need a license to apply it, and the commercial stuff sounds much more powerful than the over the counter home owner stuff…I had a friend tell me it’s fairly involved (the way an orchard grower sprays)
Sometimes spraying might be needed, these things don’t evolve and are all clones. But same here, need a license to even recommend a product.
Good pruning and cultural control can go along way.
Feel free to quote me “show me a apple that doesn’t have a canker or some crud, spraying will only mitigate it, but even if you don’t and stop hacking on it it should do fine”
 
Around here, in New Canaan, CT, the best that can be hoped for is to convince a customer to bring the apple tree to an acceptable shape, production would require many more steps the customer is not interested in. Though I've found an occasional old tree that bears a few apples regardless.

I worked in a number of seasonal apple harvests in Maine, at Freeman Rand's orchard, Ricker Hill, Apple Farm in Skowhegan, Libby's in Limerick, ME, Bartlett's in Richmond, MA, Golden Harvest in Valatie, NY, and they all had a high production system down with corporate labor, largely Jamaican. How can you mimic that on small orchards?
 
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I've read stories about homestead farming in past centuries where pigs were fattened up in oak groves. I wonder if the same thing was done with fruit orchards. Sometimes the windfall fruit completely cover the ground. They attract large animals as well as wasps. During cleanup I've found that the wasps are pretty docile. They either have full tummies or might be drunk from the fermented fruit.
 
Very manageable.



Orchard ladders are a big step up.


Carve out working space for ladders/ climber.

Keep the horizontally-oriented limbs, as possible.

Bend/ Train with weights, cordage, training wire (coated).
 
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