Professional reference resources
- Thread starter JD3000
- Start date
-
- Tags
- books references scientific
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
I usually manage to avoid that by getting the owner to clearly express their goals. Once they do that, it's easier to sell an overall reduction to solve the clearance or risk issue. The irony is, whacking the big limb will increase risk over time, which makes no sense, unless they are big coon fans.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
I've got a big one... probably 14" diameter and 25 or 30 feet long... to take off a big green ash tree when I get a warm day. It goes right across a small parking lot owned by a nearby church, and then across the alley. Homeowner is a member of the church, and mainly wants it gone so it doesn't drip sap on the cars. I'm surprised the city hasn't taken it off, really. It can't be more than 12' up where it crosses the alley... sooner or later a truck is going to hit it. This one doesn't bother me too much, because the ash tree is likely to be gone, eventually, now that EAB is here. They're dropping like flies all over the place.
I wasn't here when that limb was small... but I really can't see how it failed to get cut back a long time ago. With its low height and outward progression, I would think somebody would have guessed that it would be a problem, eventually. I guess you really don't think about trees much if you're not terribly interested in them.
I wasn't here when that limb was small... but I really can't see how it failed to get cut back a long time ago. With its low height and outward progression, I would think somebody would have guessed that it would be a problem, eventually. I guess you really don't think about trees much if you're not terribly interested in them.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
What makes ash trees drip sap?
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
I have no idea why the woman believes this is going to be an issue. The limb is more likely to fall on the cars than drip anything on them. It is dying back. I saw no signs whatsoever of it dripping anything. It's rather like stepping back to the latter part of the 17th century and listening to people explain why all these damn witches need to hang.
It is damaged, from utility vehicles hitting it when they go through the alley. It dropped a lot of dead wood during recent wind storms. Enough to fill a pickup truck half full of firewood. I suggested pruning the deadwood out and reduction of at least a some of the canopy. I might as well have suggested that she empty her life savings out of the bank and spend all the money trying to cure a chipmunk of cancer. It's actually one of the biggest ash trees, and healthiest, around here. Very nice tree. Would be nice to try to keep it healthy for as long as possible, but I'm fairly certain the homeowner has made her mind up, already, regarding what she wants done with it.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Jeff thanks for a good description of a unique brand of arbor phobia. It's amazing how people see evil in trees, which are the essence of good in this world.
I do not live in emerald ash borer country, but if I did I think I would be pushing treatments right and left. A respected colleague who was a very busy arborist in western North Carolina converted this whole business to treating hemlocks for adelgid. It took me a while, but I can understand that emphasis.
I do not live in emerald ash borer country, but if I did I think I would be pushing treatments right and left. A respected colleague who was a very busy arborist in western North Carolina converted this whole business to treating hemlocks for adelgid. It took me a while, but I can understand that emphasis.
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
I went through Ohio recently... should be just about out of ash trees to die, aren't you?
Yep. There may be some very isolated ones left and perhaps some resistant ones left. Only one's really left have been conserved with poison.
There could have been more. When I first started treating for EAB in 03 or 04, we were using the 2F formulation of imidacloprid, which was probably Merit then. At that time, the labeled rate for flatheaded borers was 0.1 to 0.2 ounces of product (in water) per 1" of DBH. This comes out to 1 to 2 ounces per 10" as you just figured out so why am I writing this part. It turns out that this dose strength is way too weak and the manufacturers had to change the label to allow a stronger rate. 0.3 to 0.4 ounces per 1" if the tree is greater than 15" DBH.
So, big trees treated early on at the lowest labeled rate, which many cheap people did, were actually some of the first to fall in the greater Cbus area. Then it turns out that the Neo-nics all do an ok job but an ok job with an introduced Agrilis borer = eventual death for big trees. So then we moved to emmamectin injections which brings us up to date.
I should also explain that our area was hit pretty early on due to growth and a lot of expansion and construction. That led to a lot of trees being planted and you can go from there...
There could have been more. When I first started treating for EAB in 03 or 04, we were using the 2F formulation of imidacloprid, which was probably Merit then. At that time, the labeled rate for flatheaded borers was 0.1 to 0.2 ounces of product (in water) per 1" of DBH. This comes out to 1 to 2 ounces per 10" as you just figured out so why am I writing this part. It turns out that this dose strength is way too weak and the manufacturers had to change the label to allow a stronger rate. 0.3 to 0.4 ounces per 1" if the tree is greater than 15" DBH.
So, big trees treated early on at the lowest labeled rate, which many cheap people did, were actually some of the first to fall in the greater Cbus area. Then it turns out that the Neo-nics all do an ok job but an ok job with an introduced Agrilis borer = eventual death for big trees. So then we moved to emmamectin injections which brings us up to date.
I should also explain that our area was hit pretty early on due to growth and a lot of expansion and construction. That led to a lot of trees being planted and you can go from there...
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
It's always a good idea to kill all the pollinator bees with our doomed attempts to save ash trees... 
Neonicotinoids always remind me, for some reason, of myxomatosis use to control rabbit populations. Let's take something that the target species will quickly develop resistance or immunity to, has horrible consequences, and slather the planet with it. Never mind about how ugly and horrible the long term results will be, another equally nasty concoction will come along and we'll pour that crap on the problem, too. Like dumping viral haemorrhagic disease on the bunnies, when the first nasty disease didn't get the job done.
I think that when problems are the result of human stupidity, dumping more stupidity on the problem isn't likely to cure it. There's a long history of prime examples out there. Maybe you have to ride some problems out, and spend more time trying not to be stupid in the first place. But that's just me. There was a time when I tried to pour alcohol on my problems. Didn't work. Tried adding some more chemicals to strengthen the mix. Also didn't work. It left me with a sense that perhaps just thinking about how to avoid the problems in the first place, and ride the old ones out, might be the only solution. That did work.
I'm not against using technology to combat the problems we create, but I do think that some of our approaches are like trying to keep pigeons from pooping on the Mercedes by blasting away at them with bazookas and surface to air missiles.
Neonicotinoids always remind me, for some reason, of myxomatosis use to control rabbit populations. Let's take something that the target species will quickly develop resistance or immunity to, has horrible consequences, and slather the planet with it. Never mind about how ugly and horrible the long term results will be, another equally nasty concoction will come along and we'll pour that crap on the problem, too. Like dumping viral haemorrhagic disease on the bunnies, when the first nasty disease didn't get the job done.I think that when problems are the result of human stupidity, dumping more stupidity on the problem isn't likely to cure it. There's a long history of prime examples out there. Maybe you have to ride some problems out, and spend more time trying not to be stupid in the first place. But that's just me. There was a time when I tried to pour alcohol on my problems. Didn't work. Tried adding some more chemicals to strengthen the mix. Also didn't work. It left me with a sense that perhaps just thinking about how to avoid the problems in the first place, and ride the old ones out, might be the only solution. That did work.
I'm not against using technology to combat the problems we create, but I do think that some of our approaches are like trying to keep pigeons from pooping on the Mercedes by blasting away at them with bazookas and surface to air missiles.
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
I've got pickup trucks that didn't cost that much... 
NO!!!
I cannot find it anywhere. I have even spoken with Lynne Boddy, she does not have a spare copy, does not know where a spare is, and does not know where an E copy exists.
I think the easiest solution is to go to a university library system, borrow it and photocopy it.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Yup, inter-library loans are a great source.
