Power line work and spiking live trees?

This is a little off topic but I just spent half of yesterday driving around looking at trees with a Duke Energy Customer Liaison. I was expecting a gitter done type with little regard for tree health. They have some kind of federal mandate to clear ALL transmission lines of anything that will grow to within 10' of a conductor in less than 9 years. They're treating distribution and primaries with similar zeal... it's a big deal, waaay more aggressive than in years past.

This guy was a breath of fresh air. He's a certified arborist, former climber and chair of my town's Tree Board... and he's a common sense guy. His reputation with the 'green' crowd is that of a search and destroy, take no prisoners, line clearance meanie. The truth is, he loves trees, quotes Shigo and does his homework.

We have a mutual customer who doesn't want her crepes or a large oak touched and is going to extremes to prevent it. So we went by and he pointed out the exact cuts he had in mind with a laser pointer... he ALREADY KNEW the exact cuts he wanted the crew to make. They were over primaries and I agreed they posed a real threat to the circuit. He wasn't hacking anything; collar cuts to nice laterals, leaving as much of the tree as possible.

The crepes are a different matter, they won't look so good this year once they're pruned but he wasn't even close to militant, he just wants them away from the neutral.

Given the volume of vegetation Duke Energy has to remove, I was happy to know that this guy takes each tree into consideration when he plans a cut.

He IS just one guy though with jurisdiction over one city. There is still a lot of hacking going on. Around here (he's in Durham, I'm in Hillsborough) the roadways are being cut back, lots of it with a Jaraffe on wheels, and the work is like vertical hedge trimming... and this is just roadway, no lines.

The Humper is right, educating the public is the way to make it better. Raising consciousness about modern arboriculture is the key to making it ever more professional. Hopefully it can raise the pay scale for crews in the process.

And about the backyard thing, it totally depends on the crew that draws the job. I worked with some Tamarack guys for a while and they spiked out in the ROWs but climbed rope on residential trees.
 
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You missed my point all together.

Your assumption that someone should die because of a work practice is absurd and disgusting to say the least.


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You'll have to show me where I said that anyone SHOULD die. Thats your false assumption. I was expressing my belief in Natural Selection. Sorry if Darwin disgusts you.
 
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"They can't spike trims here (at least its a BIG no no) due to conductivity. Why on earth would someone want to link themselves via two steel spikes to a giant tube of water hanging over some power lines? If they're that stupid, the planet is better off without them."

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Your D rings are made of steel, thats a conductor, don't forget the metal in your boots. Wear a any rings or jewelry? Those are conductors as well.
I work for orange, I take care of the 230kV lines. We are not stupid, you are just inexperienced. Thats why you are not allowed around the lines. It's a lack of understanding of the system that either makes one either ridicule, or underestimate the dangers involved.
We don't "MESS AROUND" with anything! We do whatever it takes to keep the power flowing, and gets us home safe every night.



I find your post insulting.
 
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I work for orange, I take care of the 230kV lines. We are not stupid, you are just inexperienced. Thats why you are not allowed around the lines. It's a lack of understanding of the system that either makes one either ridicule, or underestimate the dangers involved.


I find your post insulting.

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I definitely have a healthy respect for the dangers associated with power line work and the people who work around it, but I won't loose sleep over someone getting energized due to their own poor decision making.

I'm not "allowed" to work around lines because I'm not qualified.

Sorry for insulting you. Obviously my earlier statement was more inflammatory than it should have been.
 
I think most of us who have worked with line clearance climbers have lots of respect for... and in my case a little envy of them. When you do that much production, climb and fall that many trees, assuming you do it for long, you can't help but get really good.

The ethical divide isn't so great as a lot of arborists make it out to be. Residential/commercial is just a completely different discipline than veg management. If you do either because you love trees and still think and talk about them after you're off work... you're a good arborist. We all have to kill trees, some of us have to kill lots of them.

Anybody that's dog-cussed the power company after three or five days without power after a storm... and I have, has to recognize that it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't proposition.

It's actually pretty straight forward -- and this is aimed at the general public, not arborists... Don't plant big, fast growing trees under lines. They don't string new lines THROUGH trees. If your trees are of high value to you and growing into lines, expect them to look funny. The power company has no choice. Sometimes, you just have to take the tree down, that's the compromise necessary to have AC power and trees.

To the power companies -- get your arborists trained or insist your contractors be trained to prune according to modern best practices, then specify it and budget for it... basically just stop doing internodal cuts... it's not that hard.

Shigo proposed that 90% of the time, 3 branches can be removed to provide 90% of the clearance.

Personally, I hate seeing big trees with right angle cutouts or V cuts with no central leader... if they were mine, I'd kill'em and re-plant. It sucks, but that's what I would do.
 
If you look at the ANZI Z133.1 the only requirement regarding spikes that I found is that the spike length must be compatible with the tree being climbed. Also the manual for Buckingham spikes doesn't have any notation regarding electrical hazards. From what I know I believe that it is up to the company to decide if spikes are allowed when around electrical conductors. I also believe that the A300 states that spikes are only to be used in removal situations. I guess if you think about it the utility companies use spikes to climb their poles to do work so I'd imagine it is approved for trees. Bottom line, just because it is approved doesn't mean it doesn't have the potential to injure a climber and I don't see the need to take an unnecessary risk especially when dealing with electricity.
 
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I guess if you think about it the utility companies use spikes to climb their poles to do work so I'd imagine it is approved for trees.

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But that utility pole isn't full of water.
 
Are your climbing boots dielectric tested to 100kv?

My point is that your boots will conduct electricity as well. This is not 220 volts here. We are talking 7,200 volts and up........a small layer of rubber that is in the dirt all day drug on the concrete and scuffed will conduct electricity as well as the leather on the uppers. If you come in contact with a powerline of sufficient voltage it will not matter if you have on boots or spikes.
 
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But that utility pole isn't full of water.

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Very interesting discussion. How many arborists out there (not including the line clearance guys) have put their throwline over the conductor? The second you do it probably violates some safety rule somewhere.

Take a tree that has three phase 25kv wye running through the middle of it. Sucker growth to the extreme into the wire zone, sunscald (maybe even rot) on the larger limbs to the sides and very few suitable crotches to tie into. You are about to make a hundred cuts to get clearance, are you really concerned with spur damage? By the time this tree gets to this point, it should've been removed 20 years ago.

I agree with educating the next generation of climbers. It should be taught right from day one but unfortunately that isn't always the case.

Later
 
Put a throwline over 25Kv and you'll violate more than a safety rule. I was throwing right next to primaries two days ago... you can bet I was taking my time and no chances.

I still take exception to spiking a residential, private tree. Use a bucket if possible, rope if necessary... spikes only as a last resort. The climber has to make the call but the owner and the tree should get the benefit of good judgement. If it's the only safe way, spike it... if there's another safe way, even if it costs production, do it without spikes.

No offense intended but I think that making a lot of cuts doesn't justify gouging a tree unnecessarily with gaffs.
 
The means needs to justify the ends. I agree with Blinky the decision should rest on the scenario at hand. Needless gouging of trees with tree climbing spikes is often uncalled for. It usually is performed by individuals who have either the most amount of exprience or the least amount of exprience on the job....
 
I can't agree with that. Often it is the result of old school thinking. That's how they learned to climb and it's the easiest way to go.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer then, everything starts to look like a nail."
 
The only way that spiking or gaffing a tree could be considered proper is that the tree is being removed. Now as far as standard practice it just depends on where you live and the utility co. you may be working for. I did line clearance for 7 years and worked for several different utilities across the US and like I said it just depends on who you are working with as to what is acceptable .Working around power is very dangerous and should be done with a minimum of conductive tools.The basic concept should be to stay out of the path of least resistance. So gaffing a tree around power lines is just plain stupid. Heck why not use a steel core lanyard or an aluminum pole while you're at it. Ha Ha!!! work smarter not harder!!
 
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