People actually believe the earth is flat?

GlennButler said:
Eratosthenes figured it out over 2200 years ago. I suppose flat-earthers are people who like to willfully wallow in ignorance. I don't think any amount of evidence would convince them, because they aren't interested in evidence.

There is plenty of evidence that all of the heavier elements were synthesized in stars, and I suppose most of the helium and lithium too.

The introduction to the New Scientist article looks interesting but I'm not going to pay to $22 to read it. Did you?

Quantum mechanics is not intuitive, the whole idea of electrons orbiting like planets is wrong. Here's a short explanation I found that may interest you.
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You are right. I think they are like to Trump supporters. It does not matter what he says or does, most people who support him will continue.

I did not pay to read that article. Interesting there was not more info to readily be found on the net regarding the topic. Hmmmm.

I do have a handle on basic quantum mechanics. You are right the electrons do not orbit like planets...it just kinda looks like that from a purely ignorant point of view. Thanks for the refresher on atoms though.
 
So I'm confused on the math...most sources state the earth curves at 8"/ mile. Yet any earth curve calculator gives way bigger numbers.

We have lake Champlain 5 minutes from my house. It is about 10 miles across to Burlington. These online calculators are telling me there is a 50' plus hump of water there with my head 0ne foot off the shore. How does the looming effect hide the fact that the lake makes a 50' hump?


https://dizzib.github.io/earth/curve-calc/
http://www.smokescreendesign.com/curvature-of-the-earth.html
 
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Never met anyone who believed in a flat earth. I did have a friend who argued that the moon landing was faked, but he liked to get a rise out of people.
You need to calculate the middle ordinate of a curve in order to determine the "hump" distance.
 
The Earth's curvature IS 8 inches per mile BUT that does not mean the visible horizon has any direct correlation with that value (i.e. the "drop" in the horizon over 10 miles is not 80 inches). I was wrong before in simplifying it to that. The real way to determine the horizon "drop" is Pythagorean Theorem (remember that?).

Anyway, you're correct that over 10 miles there is a "hump" of 50-60 feet, but the answer to why you can see something at or beyond that distance is simple refraction. Light bends in different mediums and the atmosphere is a smorgasbord of disturbances and density changes. Physics (and science generally) is a wonderful thing and I sometimes feel like many of these flat-earthers are too obtuse to appreciate it.

For further reference this table gives general corrections for Earth's curvature and refraction.
image.webp
Source: http://armyengineer.tpub.com/en0593a/en0593a0085.htm

Forgive me it's metric (you Yanks really need to get on board), but as you can see at a distance of 16km (10 miles) the refraction effect is 17.3 metres (~57 feet). This eliminates the "hump" caused by the Earth's curvature over Lake Champlain.
 
If you stretched a line straight from one shore at the surface of the water, across a 10 mile wide lake, to the the opposite shore at water level, then the distance that the water would cover above the line at the mid point would be approximately 17 feet, by my calculation.
 
surveyor said:
Never met anyone who believed in a flat earth. I did have a friend who argued that the moon landing was faked, but he liked to get a rise out of people.
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You know Stanley Kubrick (2001 space oddesssy) he was given credit for faking the moon landings and such by those conspiracy folks. Kinda accepted father of space film by new cgi makers. So you know James Cameron (avatar). Now he wants to start a space program. Conspiracy folks are all up in that. Let alone all the air bubble sightings (cause people think they are in a pool) during space walks.
 
Boomslang said:
The Earth's curvature IS 8 inches per mile BUT that does not mean the visible horizon has any direct correlation with that value (i.e. the "drop" in the horizon over 10 miles is not 80 inches). I was wrong before in simplifying it to that. The real way to determine the horizon "drop" is Pythagorean Theorem (remember that?).

Anyway, you're correct that over 10 miles there is a "hump" of 50-60 feet, but the answer to why you can see something at or beyond that distance is simple refraction. Light bends in different mediums and the atmosphere is a smorgasbord of disturbances and density changes. Physics (and science generally) is a wonderful thing and I sometimes feel like many of these flat-earthers are too obtuse to appreciate it.

For further reference this table gives general corrections for Earth's curvature and refraction.
View attachment 36484
Source: http://armyengineer.tpub.com/en0593a/en0593a0085.htm

Forgive me it's metric (you Yanks really need to get on board), but as you can see at a distance of 16km (10 miles) the refraction effect is 17.3 metres (~57 feet). This eliminates the "hump" caused by the Earth's curvature over Lake Champlain.
Click to expand...
So if one measured line of sight to a target on the other side...it should change in accordance with temp, humidity, sun position ah I mean the earths position with respect to the fixed sun?lol

Hard for me to wrap my simple mind around the fact I cannot see a 57 foot hump of water cause I'm seeing the light bend. And the light bending thing only hides the earths curvature...no other natural curves like hills of the same magnitude?
Refraction must do the same thing to the horizon to make it look flat?
 
surveyor said:
If you stretched a line straight from one shore at the surface of the water, across a 10 mile wide lake, to the the opposite shore at water level, then the distance that the water would cover above the line at the mid point would be approximately 17 feet, by my calculation.
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Oh I never thought about a string. Light can not bend a tight string!
So I need 10 miles of some high test fishing string on a calm day with no boat traffic, gotcha!
 
frashdog said:
So if one measured line of sight to a target on the other side...it should change in accordance with temp, humidity, sun position ah I mean the earths position with respect to the fixed sun?lol

Hard for me to wrap my simple mind around the fact I cannot see a 57 foot hump of water cause I'm seeing the light bend. And the light bending thing only hides the earths curvature...no other natural curves like hills of the same magnitude?
Refraction must do the same thing to the horizon to make it look flat?
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The horizon thing is true. Read here: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~aty/explain/simulations/inf-mir/Kaplan_photos.html

upload_2016-3-2_16-59-17.webp

I'm not sure about the refraction of natural curves like hills, but my guess is that it does happen. However, these natural curves are of such small scale compared to an entire planet that they may not be perceptible or are of too little significance.
 
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A man standing on the shore can see a ship out to about 11 or 12 miles before it disappears from view entirely. This has traditionally been where the international waters begin.
 
come to the middle of the nullabor plain and see the curvature of the earth with your own eyes , I have...

flat earthers should be rounded up and placed into re-education camps until being deemed fit to re-enter society,

or burned with fire whattever works for you.

maybe a little harsh but c'mon - gravity?
what more evidence do you need?
 
Stihlmadd said:
come to the middle of the nullabor plain and see the curvature of the earth with your own eyes , I have...

flat earthers should be rounded up and placed into re-education camps until being deemed fit to re-enter society,

or burned with fire whattever works for you.

maybe a little harsh but c'mon - gravity?
what more evidence do you need?
Click to expand...
lol! hmmm round up a group of people because of a belief, put them in camps and burn them
I think that has been tried before.
According to a flat earthen...
gravity is also a hoax and they have many words about it that people are reading, thinking about and leaning towards.
Purely entertainment here. Some where half way down the page they explain gravity and how tesla showed through electromagnetism the earth is flat.http://aplanetruth.info/

Other then entertaining me with their way of Thinking, what's the harm from them? Like a good movie, you are pretty sure is not real.
I look at it like a religion. I think it's entertaining people believe in Jesus ,canned religions or even being a superior race...Is there even any scientific proof of him and his dad? I feel like I've had religion shoved in my face and ears many times more then any belief systems. My neighbors don't like the fact I don't attend their church. They use God as the answer when they don't understand or can't explain something. Can't say I've even meet anyone in real life who believes in a flat earth, let alone been bothered by them.
 
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