Pancake update

Riggs.

Seriously?
thinking.gif


Come on brother.
 
Riggs I am a tree guy from birth too, and to be honest if you put out an artical with a title "I've Never Dropped A Tree On Myself" I'd skip by it and never give it a second glance because I'm not going to learn anything from it.

Now granted Pancake can't tell us how it happend there is still things to learn from his story, and I would much rather read about other people's mistakes than go blindly through life thinking nothing can hurt me because I've never dropped a tree on myself.

There is no reason to bash the people who bring us these stories which bring dark clouds to <u>your</u> artifically sunny world.

And if you still feel like there is nothing to learn from the Awakenings part of treebuzz then maybe you could do us all a favor and stay out of it.
 
Pancake can be applauded for having the courage to even risk the ridicule that he's experienced here. Not easy admitting to an accident and harder yet to say exactly how it may have been avoided.

Riggs, you've only stated your success. That part is easy. Step up and tell us your screw ups.

I'm not a tree guy from birth but that doesn't diminish anything.
 
As far as I know, Keith IS going to tell us about it, and he has said so all along. I think he would prefer to release the information in his article first, rather than here. Makes sense to me.

-Tom
 
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I know, Keith IS going to tell us about it, and he has said so all along. I think he would prefer to release the information in his article first, rather than here. Makes sense to me.

-Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

if this is true, this thread should never had been started. when threads like this are begun, we as a community look for all the FACTS, and then look for the answers to how it could have been avoided.

starting this thread, being elusive about the facts, and not having any answers sucks. i feel like we just had a salesman here.......like that story boys? well if you wanna hear how it ends, you gotta buy the book.
 
As I no longer get the magazines...too expensive to maintain memberships just now...I'm hoping the article will get posted here at some point

As for 'awakenings' just reading this whole post has prompted me to slow down and be way more careful for an upcoming job, a 30' dead coconut palm over a dock, has to be rigged, no access and no nearby tree to rig off...who knows, the extra time I will take to plan the takedown strategy may be the difference between life, whole life and the 'd' word...
It is easier to blow off accidents to homeowners...gives you a little more pause for thought when its a pro...

Thanks for posting Pancake...you are in my prayers.
I also gained a lot listening to a fellow in Australia, his name was Phil Smallwood and he gave a talk from a wheelchair about safety before the QAA Arborcamp, guys who have F#&amp;^$d up and man up to tell us, deserve and get my respect.

Lets debate bore cuts somewhere else...not all of us have that 25" - 32" bar for fat trees...
 
[ QUOTE ]
if this is true, this thread should never had been started. when threads like this are begun, we as a community look for all the FACTS, and then look for the answers to how it could have been avoided.

starting this thread, being elusive about the facts, and not having any answers sucks. i feel like we just had a salesman here.......like that story boys? well if you wanna hear how it ends, you gotta buy the book.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, Jim. He said quite a bit in the original post, and the rest can be discussed ad nauseum once the article is published, and it probably will. Let's not mistake TreeBuzz for a court of law. It's a discussion forum where you might not always get all the answers you are looking for or full disclosure on any given topic. My two cents.

-Tom
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if this is true, this thread should never had been started. when threads like this are begun, we as a community look for all the FACTS, and then look for the answers to how it could have been avoided.

starting this thread, being elusive about the facts, and not having any answers sucks. i feel like we just had a salesman here.......like that story boys? well if you wanna hear how it ends, you gotta buy the book.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, Jim. He said quite a bit in the original post, and the rest can be discussed ad nauseum once the article is published, and it probably will. Let's not mistake TreeBuzz for a court of law. It's a discussion forum where you might not always get all the answers you are looking for or full disclosure on any given topic. My two cents.

-Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear you Tom, and agree to a point. With all the discussion, and refusal to answer questions by pancake, I feel as if we are being strung along just so guys will buy the rag when it comes out. ya know?
 
I get what you are saying also, but if I was him I would avoid this thread like the plague. I don't blame him for not re-engaging this discussion, or for being vague. The man's life has been changed in ways I cannot imagine, and answering all of the needling questions is just about the last thing I would do if I was him. We all handle things differently; let's respect Keith's way of handling this. He owns it, after all.

-Tom
 
[ QUOTE ]
I get what you are saying also, but if I was him I would avoid this thread like the plague. I don't blame him for not re-engaging this discussion, or for being vague. The man's life has been changed in ways I cannot imagine, and answering all of the needling questions is just about the last thing I would do if I was him. We all handle things differently; let's respect Keith's way of handling this. He owns it, after all.

-Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

Peace
 
Following an accident it can become an adversarial relationship between OSHA, compensation insurance, and employee employer.
The injured party needs to protect their legitimate claim to settlement.
It's the insurance company's job to find errors that save them money. You may need to make statements through a lawyer to protect yourself.
 
[ QUOTE ]
28 yrs here , never dropped a tree on myself , whos article do you want to read ?

[/ QUOTE ] After following this thread not yours. In my experience those that claim to know it all usually don't.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm done with this thread

[/ QUOTE ] Thank you lord!!
 
In addition to keeping any type claim clear, let's say that Keith DOES need to keep something withheld in order to ethically publish an article as something "new" to the publisher.

First of all, we don't know that, we're speculating.

Second, small number of people reading this website would not affect circulation much at all.

Third, if that's what Keith needs to do to publish, and earn a wee bit of money while he otherwise cannot, then I do not begrudge him a single withheld dot or jittle.

Northwind
 
[ QUOTE ]
In addition to keeping any type claim clear, let's say that Keith DOES need to keep something withheld in order to ethically publish an article as something "new" to the publisher.

First of all, we don't know that, we're speculating.

Second, small number of people reading this website would not affect circulation much at all.

Third, if that's what Keith needs to do to publish, and earn a wee bit of money while he otherwise cannot, then I do not begrudge him a single withheld dot or jittle.

Northwind

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, seriously...this thread got waaaay outta hand REAL fast. So much for cameraderie.
 
Very Brave to share here and good to see all the support you're recieving.. I hope you get that arm back bro... the power of prayer is AWESOME!

I AM with Riggs in wanting to know what specifically can be learned about the mistake or causes of this. Sounds like your hard hat saved your life... So that is one thing to be thnakful for.. I hope you can understand... we are trying to learn from this and we need more details for that purpose.

I've run from a few widow makers in my time, and only walked away because I got lucky at least twice... Your situation sounded a bit different beacsue of the broken top. But with a widow maker (hung tree), I was taught to cut it and look up, rather than just turning your back and running. with the idea that once the tree is straight, it can fall 360º... and it will start slowly enough to allow the faller time to step to the side if he stops and looks back up at it, but he will rarely be able to outrun it if it is coming right for him, when he is running with his back to it...

Also I always think about intuition.. Did you get that funny feeling or thought that something is just not right with this?

Thanks again for sharing... Just knowing what you're going through and hearing it right from the source has got to help remind us all of how dangerous this profession is and hopefully help keep us all that much more vigilant..
 
I just re-read this entire thread... that took some time... I had only read page 1 when I posted the above.. Didn't realize things got so "hot"

I think the point I AM trying to make here is that Keith said in his original post that he ran "out of instinct", as soon as the tree let loose.. That could have been part of the problem.. He had 3 escape routes planned... If he had looked up before running, he might have picked door # 3... He had time to switch out from route 1 to route 2, so he most likely would have had time to look up and still get out to the safe escape route...

SO IMO we need to train ourselves to look up first, which runs against our instincts.. That is one lesson to be learned here.. And drop the saw for goodness sake..

As with most accidents, sounds like this one was the result of multiple "mistkaes" or misjudgments, or failures... Keith mentioned a few... Should have had the whole crew involved in the planning... Better inpection of the tree for soundness in the area of the notch... Better inpection of the tree for forces in the air and at the break.

Riggs wants to know what others. He wants to knwo if the plunge cut was part of the equation (which I doubt)..

IMO Keith has the right to share as much or as little as he wants... and thats fine.. I;ve written a bunch of articles that have yet to be published and I don't want to post them on the boards. That is understandable..

And it being a free country, Riggs doesn't have to like it... He's got a right to his opinion.. I think we're gonna have to start calling him no-nonsense Riggs... (his dad named me "the preacher").

Sorry to hear about the truck ... let me know if you need to borrow a plow truck... I've got an '87 dodge 250 for ya...
 
yo jesse , you aint the man . Watch ur mouth. Your experiences are a days pay ! If I drop a tree on myself or some one else , I tell you how it happened . Because there is a reason why it happened . Do it as long as I have and than we'll talk , references available.
 
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