one stub

Fairfield,

My climbing career started using a Mac 6, a modified Bell System pole climbers harness and three strand rope. That was in about '73 or so. You can bet that I broke a lot of rules...at the time OSHA was barely alive. Over the years I became aware of the proper way to use tools. During that time I met people who got hurt from not following good practices. A few friends died too. It hurts to see poor practices used knowingly. That's the rub.

Anyone who has ever been to one of my presentations has probably heard about Evil Tom. He's the knucklehead that I used to be...the catch is that he's still alive and comes to life at the worst times. The longer I do things properly, whether there's a rule or standard or not, the less likely Evil Tom is to manifest his behaviors.
 
Swing I gotta give it to you at least your consistent. It's like your that strong glue that finds a way to hold everybody together. :) Hey it's appreciated.

Anyway, Jim Fairfield, of course again, thanks for posting that quick work video. Nice to see were all trying to make sure were working safe, good catch on the wire gate that's a big no no... leaving the crack, no biggie, glad to see you make it out of that mess in one piece.

EasyP... you got me laughing on that one...

and Tom D...
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right along there with you too Jomoco... I know you guys don't mean to come of so rude and that's just how you really are. Of course you guys have broken the rules, and you've made it known you won't post that work. (well, except for the pics of Jo climbing without a hardhat). That's fine don't post it, but why bark at a guy that will post it? Sitting there, wondering why he would ever want to show people the truth about what we do in trees.

You guys have to remember what it was like twenty or thirty years ago when you made those silly mistakes. I know back then we didn't have such compact helmet cams to document, and furthermore, computers and internet to post it! Of course back then you were, well lets just say, not as known. Of course now even if you did have those shotty videos you probably wouldn't even share them... even with all of us.
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I have a dream, that treebuzz will one day be a safe of a place to post all tree videos. Jomoco, wake up, pro's do work like that, and I think you owe young fairfield a bit of an apology. See, Jim is a professional, he does tree work to support his family. We all know you guys are passionate about safety, and "good work" and have high standards, that's great and all but you kind of kill it for those who that are passionate about treework still, and it's not encouraging to post anything let a lone a work video with those comments. There's a lot of work videos out there people would share with us if you guys could quit the HOLIER THAN THOU attitude.

Oh... and RopeShield I thought it was Palm Trees that took out the most climbers.
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Be safe!
 
Bix thanks, the old man always taught me it's not what you say but how you say it. Can't say I have lived that way but as I have aged I have come full circle and I have started to watch my speech these days. Being a ' hothead ' it takes a lot of restraint and I sometimes falter and fail. But I do keep trying. On another note Fairfield I do appreciate your video's and have watched them since you got the camera as a gift. Good for you keep it up. As for criticism, I analyze and I own what I think I should own and leave the rest. For me when I get defensive I usually have to check my motives and reasoning, which usually gives me a solution. This is in no way advice it's just what I have learnt in my 45 years. And believe me I have been down some slippery paths by my own accord.
 
Bix good post man!!
I here you about posting vids, Its like you had a good climb removing a tree or stubs, everything went well as it could in this business, exited to share with the buzz'ers the new vid and "slammmmm" nancy negitive comes out from under rocks or something...just weird
 
Might be a nancy negative, but if you do this long enough your going to get hurt. So I try my damnest to not do stupid sh!t. You can only get away so long before something happens, big or small. So I try not to do things I know are dumb and pretty easy to avoid.

Also, if you put up the video be ready for people to point stuff out. We can't help it. We just want you to know there is a safer way of doing it. We would like for everyone to get home at night safe. I look in TCIA's accident report every month and cringe at the deaths. It's the small things that will kill ya.

I have done the same thing in other trees where you think the TIP is bomb proof, but you get up and find out something is wrong with it. Got to abandon ship and find another way of doing it. That crack would have freaked me out. Glad I ride a rope wrench so I could just unhook and bail.

And bixler man, I don't know how to respond to that. Pros don't do it like that.
 
This is a discussion I particularly like, so I am continuing to say a little more. I come here to learn and share with others. This is a professional forum where people generally want to help others grow and be safe in this profession. I think it's fair that when pictures or videos are posted it opens up for discussion and obviously criticism. I know sometimes it's hard to receive criticism when it comes across harshly but it is what it is. If it's true then man up and learn from it. It takes a man/ woman to heed warnings that could save his/ her life, putting aside pride. A good analogy for this is if my child is doing something that I perceive as being harmful to their well being, is it not my responsibility to correct them to ensure their safety. I know we are not children, however as each other's peers are we not responsible to correct another that may be doing something which could maybe prove fatal or cause injury. Just my view.
 
Swing nails it but let's go ahead and dissect an accident anyways. We look at an accident and find a direct cause, doesn't tell much.... Someone did something the shouldn't have and got hurt, damaged something, died, whatever, but why did they do that? Well there were some contributing factors, he was tired, he didn't want to be doing the task, it was Friday, he was in a hurry, and so on. Let's dig a little deeper still, we find what is called the root cause. Now the root cause is going to be one or more of only a few things, ignorance, the improper action was accepted practice, or reckless disregard. I don't know if this is easy to follow as I have spent more time mastering my trade than the English language but I would like to make one thing completely clear, no one wants to feel like they contributed to an accident because they turned a blind eye.
 
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by far not the best possition to be in when making a cut, and not a way that i like to do it but job has to be done...... right...... anyway I know when it comes to safety on this I could raped by a two year old on basic rules broke on this one, but I am sure if you climb long enough these days will come from time to time. Enjoy, and be safe...

http://youtu.be/f7zKfTAJ_Sk

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I'm curious about why you posted this Fairfield?

It seems such a hypocritical thing to invite the viewer to enjoy and be safe as you post such unsafe and downright dangerous work practices, then compound that hypocrisy by insinuating that if I climb long enough, such shoddy amateurish approaches at tree pruning will happen from time to time?

Did you leave that tree after finally completing that shoddy cut? Or did you do the right thing and take it down below that split?

Why do I suspect you just cut that stub out and left the tree as it was?

I got news for yu Fairfield, pros don't work like that at any time, because they're acutely aware that all it takes is one such mistake to end their careers.

jomoco

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Jomoco, most of what we hear you say seems to be hypocritical. I'm curious if you realize that
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. In this short video you get to see what Jim did. The fact is I would rather be able to see it than not. Thats why I can appreciate it. God forbid I ever have children, but if one day I do, I'll have them watch this to show and explain to them how not to do tree work safely, how not to put yourself in that situation in the first place, how to not quit, the advantages of a longer bar, ect...

I got news for yu Jomoco, pros do work like that. I've also seen them toss their hardhats down when they over-heat :poo: Everybody has their own standards. But that's besides the point, It just hard to watch attitudes like yours push out your fellow tree climbers from posting any video that isn't as good as the X-mans
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Now I know I'm just a baby in the industry... but the first thing I realized is that the true "pro" tree community and this forum prides themselves on building each other up, encourages hard safe work, and all share a mutual respect.

Tom D. I can feel your pain,
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, I can see your frustration, I appreciate the passion as well. Why post it!?!? I know people that come and visit this video forum may not realize what is safe, or acceptable, or frowned upon. If you found a way to organize the video forum in such a way to separate the acceptable/safe from the unsafe/stupid videos, would this be a step forward? A sort of way to compromise? Just an idea, run it by the lawyer first, someone gets their feelings hurt and their probably liable to sue! Just kidding.

So Jim Fairfield, just curious, did the client only want that one ugly stub out of that pointless tree? Was it an option to remove the entire cracked limb? Looking back, what would you have done differently? That one was tough to watch!
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I like fairfield's climbing style and his video are entertaining enough... I wasn't watching closely to see the deficient biner. Looked like an awkward climb to reach that stub. We've all been there... You got to expect to hear some noise though Jim.. don't take it personally...
 
Well like I had stated when I had posted the video there are things that I had done that are not the way to go about it on a daily bases. Also like I had stated before, yes that was the only thing the customer had wanted cut. I wish I had looked over my right shoulder at one point so the view of a huge hanger in another tree could have been seen (and was not wanted cut). What could I have done different, well besides the obvious of the wire gate..... nothing for the situation that was given to me. Think about it, I found that I was tied into a failing tree, I came down and retied into a tree behind it. I didnt have a bigger bar (otherwise it would have been used) so I made as best of a cut as I could with what I had. The customer could care less about the tree having a huge rip in it, and only cared about a stub. It is not up to me the jobs that I am given on a day to day. If a customer calls you and says they want a stub cut out of a tree in the middle of a field just because it bothers them when they look across the field, are you going to tell them no??
I dont want it to seem as though I get pissed about someone calling out the fact that I used a wire gate on my lanyard. But, to jest that you make no mistakes because you dont talk about it or post it...... Or to be a flat out moron and call a person, who you dont know anything really about an amature.... get over your self.
Like I had mentioned the next day before any climbing was done a locking biener was placed on the lanyard, not because of all of you or anyone else but due to I know better. By the way Tom, the lanyard in that video was purly work postioning and not there because I had thought my tie in was having a chance to fail. I dont belive we all use our lanyard 100% of the time because of fears that are climbing line wont keep us from falling. I would be willing to bet that sometimes we put a lanyard around a lead and have no real use for it there (but it was pure good habits that you did it).
Bix, I have no issue with you saying that you would show your kid this video to show how not to go about it. Hell when I changed my wire gate back to a locking I happend to be showing someone how to SRT up and change over. I even looked at that person and said dont ever use a nonlocking biener like this. Although when I tell my son not to use a wire gate like that I am sure I am going to be asked "then why do we use non-locking for rock climbing when we lead climb?" "We take big falls onto them". I come from a big mixed bag of climbing so for some things that are such HUGE mistakes, to me are things that in other climbing is looked at as such a big deal.
Oh ya, Tom you say you dont go around talking about you mistakes or things you have broke the rules on but then later state you talk about that stuff and classes or clinics you hold..... wich is it? you do talk about it or you dont?? If you do, well then you are no different then me as of right now are you.
 
Its not about better or worse...different or the same.

Take a look at context. This is how I set myself up.

When I put myself up for an example...ie Evil Tom...its evident and up-front. With a climbing career that covers almost 40 years you can bet that I've changed and become better. I started using double, then triple locking biners for support years before they were required in our profession. LIke you it seems, I've spent some time on rock and ice. I've had accidents and lost dear friends. when I see something that could be improved, I improve.

There has to be a very compelling reason not to follow current best practices. BPs are usually ahead of rules and regs too.

Maybe the easiest way to make my position clear would be to share how I would have setup this thread. In the first post I would have explained that the client ONLY wanted the ragged stub cut off. They didn't care about the cracked limb. If they were informed of the crack while I was in the tree...call the estimator or owner, at least get on record. Using the wiregate...I don't carry anything but lockers on my harness. Why carry the weight if it can't be used is my policy?

After you explained what you were hired for the thread made sense. Until then...it sure looked odd.
 
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I like fairfield's climbing style and his video are entertaining enough... I wasn't watching closely to see the deficient biner. Looked like an awkward climb to reach that stub. We've all been there... You got to expect to hear some noise though Jim.. don't take it personally...

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No disrespect meant. Tone is hard to get over the interweb. Daniel gets it much worse.
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