Omni-Block 1.5

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Hope this helps and big thanks to Tom for his videos they have opened my option and ideas up hugely. If anyone hasn't seen them grab some popcorn and have a movie night.

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KevinS
All Green Tree Service


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Kevin, it’s very nice hearing that. Thank you very much.

I’d like to say something only a half-notch above the obvious: you guys are where the action is. Virtually everything on my channel is derivative from work I’ve seen here. You are both the source and the proving ground for new ideas.

I work at speeds and weights that are laughable to a working arborist. When people see you guys up there, they think they’re watching an art form; when they see me, they think “what is that old fart doing up that tree”?

This is not false modesty. I’m proud of some the ideas I’ve ginned up. And I’m proud that I go up to eat my own dogfood. But the real innovation and proving comes from the guys that take the time to share vids and pixs and posts, here and elsewhere. I really mean it: here’s a clip from my very first video, years ago: <u>U-SAVER V2, Part 6</u>


Thanks for the good words about the YouTube channel (in signature below). It just passed 100,000 hits. I’m not too impressed with that … Kate Upton shows cleavage and gets that in fifteen minutes. But here’s something that really keeps me going: every single day, viewers spend 12.5 hours looking at the channel(!). That means the “hits” are not accidental and the channel is "sticky". Processional arbs are spending serious time and staying for the content. The feedback I get, often privately, is worth its weight in gold.

This is how innovation happens. What do you need, what works, what doesn’t? I’ll sure as hell never out climb a twenty-something or thirty-something, but I can bring the time to be thoughtful and experimental with the gear. Keep it coming.

Tom Hoffmann
 
Other than the whoopie, r/r fs with the little block or just running it on a loopie or loop sling does anyone have any neat or special custom slings they ever use? Or does that about cover it?
 
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Other than the whoopie, r/r fs with the little block or just running it on a loopie or loop sling does anyone have any neat or special custom slings they ever use? Or does that about cover it?

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Kevin,

Since you asked, I pulled this out of my spares box. I never “worked” this idea and I never rigged with it. I got distracted when Xman launched the XRRs and then never got back to it.

My original light whoopee (West Marine rings + bronze Newco thimble) was designed first to take impact loading, with the option to add the OmniBlock for low friction rigging.

This concept goes the other way. It defaults to pulley rigging with the option to add a fat steel biner to the Pinto becket for when you need just rings for impact.



pintowhoopie.jpg




I’ll say again, I have not developed or experimented with this idea. Here’s an unprioritized list of things that I would consider if I built it:

1) I would use the West Marine rings, not the Pensafe ring. Bigger bend, smoother finish and I don’t need the PPE certification.
2) I really like the Pinto as a ferocious attachment point. With the spacer, it’s stronger and fatter than most rigging binners. I’d work with DMM to choose between the Pinto and the Rig. The Rig would accommodate larger rigging line (9/16”SB is the best match to ½” Tenex) but the bushing (not a bearing) in the smaller Pinto would be a better choice for impact rigging I think.
3) What if you use an XRR to replace the West Marine rings? You’d lose choking configuration and complicate remote set/retrieve but get a great bend radius. Dunno.
4) I like that the Pinto lets the whoopie go “straight through” the spacer. That means you can push it out of the system when you want. You can’t do that with the bronze thimble. Girth hitch a stem and get a floating redirect.


So, all in, you’d have a light rigging system good for maybe 2T swl, remote install/retrieve, pulley and impact, choking and hanging, cost-to-build under $100.

Maybe someday I’ll get back to this. Meanwhile, enjoy the pondering and tell us what you decide to do.




OF
 
Tom
With the sling above if you did run a x ring you said you can't use as a choker. But could you not pass the ring(s) through the adjustable eye?

Doing this you can run just the ring or if you keep it choked tight to the limb would say a large or medium x ring not match the pinto roughly for size and increase the bend radius while using the pulley? Best of both worlds?

My only thoughts are:
Maybe it wouldn't cinch down in to the girth as much?
Maybe if the load did pull (tighten/stretch) the ring farther out would that increase bend radius even more or would it pull funny on the pinto?

I like the steel rings but if you always could use both pieces of hardware together would that be a good thing?

I think the choked sling would have to retrieved manually as well, no remote set/ retrieve.

Please share your thoughts
 
One more question. This pinto would rely on hardware strength unlike your bronze thimble, similar to the small arborist ring seeing 50% of the load.

You went away from the ring for strength and a better bend radius. The pinto gives you the good bend with less friction no doubt but does it compromise strength?

I know in your one video you picked that quirky 3/4" block for a few reasons but one was the it was well matched at the 25000 lbs range same as the tenex whoopie and the lg x ring.

I realize like you state in your rigging whoopie video this is not a tail block so don't use it as one but do you think the steel or x ring, 1/2" tenex and the pinto are an equal strength match like your larger one or is 1/3 of the system of specced?

I don't mean to put you on the spot anyone can answer these questions, but this setup is exactly what one of my other climbers has been looking for so I may steal your idea and test it.
 
Holy smoke, Kevin! You’re making me work. Great questions, I’ll do what I can but a lot of this is over my pay grade and would need some physical testing, for sure.

First, let’s think about the tenex whoopie with the small Pinto spliced into the loop and a “large” XRR in the Brummel …

1) The pinto won’t pass through the XRR so you lose the choking pulley setup.

2) You are absolutely correct, you could push the pinto away from the end of the loop, put the XRR thru and get a choke with the X-ring

3) The standard 22mm retrieval ball from Teuf works nicely with this combo (I tried it) so you could get remote set/retrieve in a basket.

4) If you really needed the choking pulley setup, you could get pretty close by lengthening the loop and wrapping a round turn back to the pulley+XRR. If you wrap it correctly, you could still retrieve.

5) Finally, if you’ve got the little RP145 tailblock left over from the heavy-duty whoopie, you could always pull the whoopie loop thru the XRR then attach the block for a pure-pulley setup. For that matter, the swivel on the omniblock is big enough to take a girth hitch with ½” tenex but I certainly wouldn’t drop on it. With the pulley pushed, you’ve got a normal whoopee. You could tie off a Porty or something.


Operationally, this starts to look like Nick’s new RigSaver up on TreeStuff, but without the rigging ring. But there’s good news and bad news: this whoopie is using Tenex. The good news that it’s probably stronger. Tenex is stronger than stablebraid plus any eye (the whoopie) is stronger than a knot (the prusik). The bad news is that the tenex will have a very much shorter service life than Nick’s stablebraid.

Other comments about strength: the pinto is an astounding 11,250# mbs. More than the omniblock at 8100# and way more than an arborist ring at 5600# mbs and very close to the thimble (single ended tenex is 11,800#). Paired with a 50kN steel rigging binner, it’s an awesome attachment point as well as a pulley. In a pinch, I would thread ½” stable braid thru the becket (below the pulley!) for a quick drop if I didn’t have the rigging binner. But I wouldn’t make a habit of it … I’d rather have the wear on a steel binner than on my aluminum Pinto becket.

You had some other good questions but remember I haven’t actually tried this. This is about as far as I can go just “pondering” the problem.

Good luck.

OF
 
Man I just read through the original posts on this and in my posts I kept mentioning mechanical advantage. Duh. You're not getting any MA with it in a drift line. I feel stupid.
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So now that I've used it a few times for a drift line, I've noticed I'm not getting much drift.

It seems my rigged pieces just want to lower directly beneath the tie off point with maybe a LITTLE drift towards the impact block. Does the impact block have to be lower than the tie off point to achieve good lateral travel?
 
Follow the arc of the drift line. If the block is lower than the distance between the rigging point and the point of attachment then you'll not get much before it hits the ground. Got to look at the distance you want to drift and the highest rigging point you can safely use above or just beyond it. Tension the drift line as much as possible to minimize loss due to the load dropping into it.
 
If the end of the drift line is secured then run through the omni at the load back to the impact and down to the groundsman then you are getting a 2:1 at the load attachment point. Of course that is if the two parts of the line through the omni are parallel to each other.
 
Hey Tom thanks for that. I didn't mean to bombard you with that i was just looking at it for awhile and thats what came up but thank you for all of that.
 
MA is associated with the amount of work needed. 2:1 divides the weight carried by the groundsman in half. If he's using a porti then fewer wraps will be needed. Just remember that once the piece is in motion then it has kinetic energy which is equal to half the mass times the speed squared.
 
Yes, it gets a bit more complicated but essentially once the body is moving then the force is directly proportional to the square of the speed of the object. The faster it's moving the more energy it'll take to stop it.

The other equation that is important is that Force or Energy is equal to the mass x gravity x distance. The farther it falls the more energy required to stop or slow it down.

If you use a value for gravity of 10 (it's actually 9.8) then you can calculate your forces using weight in lbs and distance in ft. Keeps the math simpler.

100 lbs falls 3 ft equals 3000 lb force.
 
My math is pretty rusty(to put it nicely), but the force of gravity is 9.8 meters per second. Wouldn't u have to convert 3ft to meters to do that calculation. Also I'm pretty sure that calculation is for a static system. Might be wrong
 
D'oh! my bad, it's 32 ft/sec.sec andddddd…. the effect of gravity is already accounted for in the "weight" of the object… My physics is even rustier than your math Sherwood

Yes, it would be 9.8 m/sec.sec for metric

sooooo, since the object's weight is 100 lbs (m x g) then a 3 ft fall would then equal 300 lbs force.

really bad….
 
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