Old School Rigging

Sfoppema

Participating member
Location
Central MA
I suppose I would clarify that I literally never negative rig wood off of a spar without a block, even on dead trees... if it's not safe to block them down off of the tree, either rig them off of another tree, dump them, or crane them if no other option. And this "v" crotch method being discussed I've not only never seen it done personally, but would not use it for all the reasons that would be apparent to a climber
 

Christrees

Participating member
Location
New York
I suppose I would clarify that I literally never negative rig wood off of a spar without a block, even on dead trees... if it's not safe to block them down off of the tree, either rig them off of another tree, dump them, or crane them if no other option. And this "v" crotch method being discussed I've not only never seen it done personally, but would not use it for all the reasons that would be apparent to a climber
That's how climber did for years before blocks and slings..you don't seem to know much about it so idk why your saying it's not safe I have alot of first hand experience doing so. It's definitely probably not as safe as using a block or xring but that's all I have to work with. 3 strand rope natural crotch. Cutting a little v crotch into the spar and rigging off it is not hurting the integrity of the tree at all. Maybe just a little not much. So you know how many huge trees I've seen stand for years like huge ass oak. And at the base of the stub after cutting is all rotten with about 2 inches of holding wood all the way around.

I'm not trying to say it's superior or anything like that it's not. I'm definitely going to be getting some nice rigging gear soon. Just need to pick up a few more jobs. I can't wait to try it out. I just know my boss he's stuck in his old ways. Even if I get all my own rigging gear he wouldn't want me to use it at work. I'd only be able to use it with him not around. But I'm hoping 1 of these days after I get my gear. I can set it up when he's gone and he can try it out when he gets back. And I'm hoping he will like it. So I can get him out of his old ways. But until then there's nothing I can do but do my job and cut trees.
 

Stumpsprouts

Branched out member
Location
Asheville
Cutting a little v crotch into the spar and rigging off it is not hurting the integrity of the tree at all.
Where exactly is this cut made? My brain hurts.


I'm definitely going to be getting some nice rigging gear soon.
A double headed beast x ring with a long sling would be an amazing bang for the buck. It adds a little friction up top, has a breaking strength of like 90kn, is a lot cheaper than an impact block, and I think it’s simplicity would appeal to your boss. And you’ll use it forever. And you can use it with gigantic ropes. And it looks cool.
 

Christrees

Participating member
Location
New York
Where exactly is this cut made? My brain hurts.



A double headed beast x ring with a long sling would be an amazing bang for the buck. It adds a little friction up top, has a breaking strength of like 90kn, is a lot cheaper than an impact block, and I think it’s simplicity would appeal to your boss. And you’ll use it forever. And you can use it with gigantic ropes. And it looks cool.
Alright cool man ...thanks for the tip. The simplicity would definitely help. Lol
 

evo

Been here a while
Location
My Island, WA
I suppose I would clarify that I literally never negative rig wood off of a spar without a block, even on dead trees... if it's not safe to block them down off of the tree, either rig them off of another tree, dump them, or crane them if no other option. And this "v" crotch method being discussed I've not only never seen it done personally, but would not use it for all the reasons that would be apparent to a climber
I still strongly believe the best of the best are well rounded riggers, ones that can make due with what they got, when they have a pile of blocks and other shiny things. Hybrid riggers that know new school as well as old, and know when to use what.

I’m not going for bragging rights, but I know when I can lower from my tail, snub something off with the tail of my lanyard to make salad out of it. All in a fraction of the time it takes a groundie to walk to the truck. But I also know exactly when I can’t get away with this and call for the needed tool in the truck. V notch false crotch, half hitch stub blocking, are best left for the history books as there is no excuse for not using the safest, most efficient, and reliable method.

but it is beautiful to work on a well rounded crew that can do a cowboy zip, brow line, and some solid natty crotch rigging. Then on the next job pull out the shiny stuff, and knowing what trick to pull out of the bag.
 

Christrees

Participating member
Location
New York
Where exactly is this cut made? My brain hurts.



A double headed beast x ring with a long sling would be an amazing bang for the buck. It adds a little friction up top, has a breaking strength of like 90kn, is a lot cheaper than an impact block, and I think it’s simplicity would appeal to your boss. And you’ll use it forever. And you can use it with gigantic ropes. And it looks cool.
I didn't see your first question...so make your notch first. Then on the opposite side of your notch 4 to 6 inches down you make your false crotch. Run your rope threw the false crotch then what I do is what ever way I put the rope threw the false crotch go up a few feet and throw the rope back the opposite way tie a running bolan and cinch your knot on the backside with your false crotch and the rope lays right in front of your notch almost like an S.

Or I can do the half hitch in my false crotch then go up and tie a running bolan.
 

Christrees

Participating member
Location
New York
I still strongly believe the best of the best are well rounded riggers, ones that can make due with what they got, when they have a pile of blocks and other shiny things. Hybrid riggers that know new school as well as old, and know when to use what.

I’m not going for bragging rights, but I know when I can lower from my tail, snub something off with the tail of my lanyard to make salad out of it. All in a fraction of the time it takes a groundie to walk to the truck. But I also know exactly when I can’t get away with this and call for the needed tool in the truck. V notch false crotch, half hitch stub blocking, are best left for the history books as there is no excuse for not using the safest, most efficient, and reliable method.

but it is beautiful to work on a well rounded crew that can do a cowboy zip, brow line, and some solid natty crotch rigging. Then on the next job pull out the shiny stuff, and knowing what trick to pull out of the bag.
I will get there Evo I promise lol...I got old school rigging down and I'll be getting new age rigging gear soon
 

evo

Been here a while
Location
My Island, WA
That sounds fun, quick explanation please?
Zip line without slings, where the branch slides down on a crotch. Most the time the climber hangs the limb and cuts a secondary lateral to a stub.
groundie can then zip like normal or get the limb clear and give the zip line a pump and a roll to get the limb to pop off.
Not for every tree, and best used in conjunction with slings for when slings are really needed. But it can save a ton of time and give the groundie way more control of popping the limb.

Brow line is about the same. Groundie takes the line and walks it out beyond the mid way point on the limb, tensions up and then walks back to the desired path, climber cuts the product and the line deflects the fall of the limb. Can be set up when felling small trees too, where the brow line interrupts the direction and then the tree slides along the tensioned rope
 

TheTreeSpyder

Participating member
Location
Florida>>> USA
It is good to know these root, pivotal, balls to the wall engagement of forces so fluently as to see their refinements gathered in other things, as same skeleton/schematic of services.
.
Best to be so fluent can steer clear of these things to the refinements throughout work life..
Also very valuable to know when to supersede that with the 1%r or less of actual painted into a corner, that can get out of cleanly, with those minimals w/o blowing things up. After having the experience to truly make that call as to still lining up to targets, as a reverse strategy to uniquely go with this time, not so much to continue to do. Then to orchestrate the riskiest seamlessly home; to get back on schedule.
 
Location
Foster
It's silly not to stay on spurs and flip line while lowering off a spar with a questionable technique.

I munter-hitch down spars on a pull line, occasionally, always with life- support.
if you were negative blocking a chunk of trunk and the rope popped out of the V, your spurs and flip line are more than likely not going to keep you up there.
 

Christrees

Participating member
Location
New York
@Christrees I would recommend snagging a copy of "The Art and Science of Practical Rigging" it's a great book and has some solid diagrams of creative ways to use basic gear. It will also lay out some load forces to consider when you're using those set ups as well.
Ok thanks very much. Appreciate it. I will look into it.
 

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