New device from ISC

I gotta get this off my chest tonight - sorta like cars now and all the new gizmos - Lord help you if one of them tanks. Days runnin' to the dealership, IF they can fix it. So advantage for this device is midline attachability and other stuff but this was a big one. But how much fiddling and money and time spent v.s. the time it takes to thread the rope thru a good old ZigZag in the first place? Yeah I know, but gee . . . .
 
ghostice said:
I gotta get this off my chest tonight - sorta like cars now and all the new gizmos - Lord help you if one of them tanks. Days runnin' to the dealership, IF they can fix it. So advantage for this device is midline attachability and other stuff but this was a big one. But how much fiddling and money and time spent v.s. the time it takes to thread the rope thru a good old ZigZag in the first place? Yeah I know, but gee . . . .
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fair enough...but I haven't spent time and money fiddling. For me its just worked. We also have a zigzag. It may be a touch smoother. But every time I pull or watch somebody else pull 70' of rope through to get it into place, I regret the $400-whatever I spent on the a little Reflex less.
 
ATH said:
fair enough...but I haven't spent time and money fiddling. For me its just worked. We also have a zigzag. It may be a touch smoother. But every time I pull or watch somebody else pull 70' of rope through to get it into place, I regret the $400-whatever I spent on the a little Reflex less.
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Mine started to slip Monday at the end lf the day while I was 60 ft up a white pine and I suddenly felt the $400-whatever across 5 months of climbing was not good value
 
I dug a little and found this:
www.iscwales.com

ISC product notice - Product Support_REFLEX

Details of ISC product notice - Product Support_REFLEX
www.iscwales.com www.iscwales.com

Rather than posting the full text:
If you are still experiencing issues, please remove the device from service immediately and click here to register a request for product support. Our engineering team is working earnestly to investigate devices from climbers who are experiencing performance issues. We will work with you to understand what is happening with your device and find a solution to address your needs.

If it is found to be a widespread problem, I would hope/expect a no cost solution be offered. I wonder what % of devices have experienced this? More than about 2% and I'd not feel great on it. I'm guessing testing standards require more like 0.002% before it passes as acceptable for life support.
 
Evo said:
I don’t have much ISC gear, care to elaborate?
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Well the one that comes to mind is the triple snap that failed to close. Sort of a well known video from Climbing Arborist. Also the Ultralink, I could not get my recall processed so I still have an original pre-recall sitting at home. I emailed and got no response. Those two jump to mind but even one example is one too many. I actually still have a triple action snap and really like it despite the design issue.
 
Njdelaney said:
Well the one that comes to mind is the triple snap that failed to close. Sort of a well known video from Climbing Arborist. Also the Ultralink, I could not get my recall processed so I still have an original pre-recall sitting at home. I emailed and got no response. Those two jump to mind but even one example is one too many. I actually still have a triple action snap and really like it despite the design issue.
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Oh no forgot about the snaps, mine jammed on me locking solid on my Dee ring. It took me disconnecting from my lanyard adjuster and hitting it with a stick on the ground to get it free.
I do love their ripoff wrench, and have no real complaints about their carabiners other than the price
 
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Tachyon is, in my experience, one of the best ropes for gripiness in a mechanical device. I still think a compact rope wrench style aid, with short stiff tether could be built into a reflex style device (much like the Blackbird). That being said, has anyone heard rumors of Petzl coming out with a new midline ZigZag?

 
surveyor said:
Tachyon is, in my experience, one of the best ropes for gripiness in a mechanical device. I still think a compact rope wrench style aid, with short stiff tether could be built into a reflex style device (much like the Blackbird). That being said, has anyone heard rumors of Petzl coming out with a new midline ZigZag?

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I noted the vague language too. Mine runs best on 11mm static kernmaster.
 
Was that actually flipping pages in a book?!

IMO when you have less minirw's/zags in the link chain you demand more of each one and any performance compromises become amplified. Performance of the rope pinch at the bottom can get compromised and perhaps can't be relied on to compensate. IMGuesstimate more zags in the chain or amp up the geometry like the chicanery RW did. I realise that's a challenge with accommodating different rope sizes.
 
Evo said:
I’m curious on why all the feild testers that promoted the device are now so suddenly quite
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I think that the field testers weren't able to get good wear data because they kept replacing devices with new iterations during the testing. May only have had 2-3 months on each iteration. Just my theory after seeing the various prototypes they had. Still all seems like the kind of thing you could see in a lab by cycling rope through the device.
 
I thunk there is another part to the tester thing which was mentioned before, which is that often these new devices are given to climbers with phenomenal skills, who automatically compensate for deficits or variables. They also often have unique styles. Average climbers make great testers because they are likely to encounter problems and notice them due to a heavier reliance on the device/hardware, less tricks up their sleeve, etc. An average climber is more like most other climbers, which is who devices are made for.
 
ghostice said:
Just saw this at brekkie this morning - takers? Is it an explanation of improvements or written by the marketing dept consumer focus group ? :-)
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For a device that new to have such significant upgrades, clearly they're aware that there is a problem that needs fixed. Looks like they're trying to fix it. Hopefully they will help out those who bought the first one with a free (or at-cost) upgraded model.
 
Steve Connally said:
I've heard from some people that know but can't say much but yes...........
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I expect that they will require the same Wrench above (for SRT) as they do now, but with the ZigZag links below open on each side like the Reflex. Designing a full mechanical is no easy task, especially for SRT midline, so I appreciate ISC for the effort. It would seem that replaceable wear parts should be incorporated into any design. I think also that Kevin's wrench idea will be necessary for any full mechanical SRT device.
 
Making a device that can work with the myriad of ropes that arborists choose to climb on, in the varied conditions we climb in, with all of our various weights is a hard task. Personally I think manufacturers either need to designate a rope the device is meant to be paired with or they need to make the devices adjustable so the user can dial it in based on personal preference, conditions, rope diameter, and weather conditions.

I kind of knew the ISC device was going to be a flop but for some reason I was dumb and bought one. I've climbed on it 2-3 times at most and I've had it for many moons. The zigzag is just so consistently smooth and safe that it is hard to try anything else.
 
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