New climber lost his nerve

I don't doubt your good intentions Actree, just the wisdom of posting your climber's shortcomings on a public forum.

We all have our shortcomings in one fashion or another, and I'm certainly no exception to that truth.

I've fired dozens and dozens of dudes over my career that I didn't think had what it takes to be a safe productive climber or groundman. I didn't do it out of any sort of spite or ego. I did it for their own good and the safety of my crews at the time.

I still firmly believe that some folks just aint suited for this biz, and never will be period.

I still firmly believe that any climber that's genuinely scared and frightened in a tree, doesn't belong in a tree, period.

A few of my own brothers looked kinda shakey in the tree when they first started, but were neither scared or panicky, just unsure of themselves. They worked their way through it, became very good climbers, and went on to become certified treeworkers and arborists.

And just because alot of folks don't have what it takes to become proficient climbers, and never will, does not by any means indicate they're unsuited to become great groundmen, stumpgrinders, truckdrivers, managers or even tree service owners. Indeed many of the very best outfits I've contracted for decades, had owners that were truly pathetic climbers, and they knew it, and worked around it. A few of them are now either extremely wealthy or flat out millionaires.

Being extremely picky about who does and doesn't work for you is a good thing for both you and your workers well being. Believe it mate.

jomoco
 
Not quite sure he did in fact post his shortcomings as much as make a statement of events. He even went so far as to praise him first.

Sometimes we make an investment in potential that doesn't pan out. Ask any venture capitalist (1 out of 10 businesses invested in succeed), risk is worth the reward.

We're not in an industry that has candidates beating down the doors to join. We need to explore potential and give those eager to attempt the opportunity to prove themselves or not.

The hiring process is an inexact science. Employers are trying to predict future performance. More often than not they do so without any training in methods designed to reveal honest past behavior that would give them something to make that prediction with some confidence.

Jomoco makes the point in that he had to hire those that he fired. Tested them out and found them wanting.
 
I don't think I was commenting on his shortcomings, rather asking for advice I didn't have to work through it.
Maybe if what I wrote came off as putting him down I should put more thought in how I word it.
I will admit once again, being in this amazing profession since 1989 I still don't know everything.
 
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I have a young guy that worked as a groundsman for a year with us. He wanted to learn to climb. We spent a good amount of time training and discussing it. Sent him up a couple of easier Pine removals and he did great, he did great on a couple trees that were technical. Ordered him a bunch of new gear.
This morning we sent him on a nice low impact job. He got 20' off the ground and lost his nerve. I was almost to the job to watch and help him if needed.
Is there any way to get by the mental block? He is worth it if there is. But, I always had the opinion that this isn't for everyone and you either get it or don't.

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I've trained guys to climb that wouldn't think of backing down from the work and other guys that can't function in the trees. IMO everyone can learn to work in trees with eventually, but if there is nothing that pushes them into it, then their fear decides for them.

The shame of failure and the fear of fear has a lot to do with things. If you can't put that in them, then they don't want to do any of the climbing work.

Most people can't even fathom how to take down big trees or much else that is a physical feat. They can't begin to envision what is possible, so it looks like a walk across a canyon without a bridge there. That is a stupid thing to do, so some guys back away from that work. Other people envision how each step is possible before they do it, and then the take the next step confidently.

Oh and what about the ability to control what's in a guys own head. Most people don't know where to begin.


You barely have a clue individual if you don't respect the tree climbers.
 
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Other people envision how each step is possible before they do it, and then the take the next step confidently.

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Practice makes perfect, that doesn't only go for the physical aspect of the work either. I am CONSTANTLY looking at trees when I am out and about. May be kind of strange but I always look at random trees and picture in my head the steps I would take to remove it. I even look for the best tie in point. I think this helps me a lot because it is like a brain exercise that keeps my head in the right place when I get to a tree that I am going to be climbing. Shoot, I talk about it so much while we are in the car that even my girlfriend points out trees to me LOL.

Definitely have to have your mind in the right place or the climbs will be rough.
 
BBBTree and AboveTheLines great input. Yes, I'm always looking at trees on drives. Wife wishes I'd watch the road more. Some people have the drive, the want, the passion to climb trees. Even on wkends where others don't. "So many trees so little time".
I do believe those of use that climbed trees as kids have an advantage. Also get your new climber into a comfortable saddle! Equipment pains can be a big distraction from the work at hand! Climb on...
 
Having a send off party Friday for our friend and wish him well. If any of you are in this area, there will be littleneck clams (dug up today), cod, steaks and a beer or many. Going to hang out and laugh a bit.
This has been a really cool thread, thanks for all the great input...even you mate.
 
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Having a send off party Friday for our friend and wish him well. If any of you are in this area, there will be littleneck clams (dug up today), cod, steaks and a beer or many. Going to hang out and laugh a bit.
This has been a really cool thread, thanks for all the great input...even you mate.

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Man, you are a cool boss. Give your guy a send off party to go work for the competition.
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I haven't read through all of the posts, but the topic is interesting. I've seen people "freeze up" mentally and physically before. I'd like to know what's going psychologically and how to help someone (verbally) "warm back up".

My observations on the matter: I think it is all psyhchological due to varying perception.

For example, if a 6" diameter crotch can hold your body weight at 20', why can't it do it a 90'? But, newer climbers (and many of us) will look down 90' and percieve the consequence are much are worse (if there was a fall) at 90' than 20'. Therefore, fear kicks in. Mentally, I believe one can't take in the facts (that the limb will hold just fine) "during the moment".

I think one main tip to prevent mental blockage (freezing up) is to rely on facts (logic) prior to climbing the tree versus waiting to think it through in the tree. For example, spotting that lovely 6" diameter T.I.P. 90' away and knowing for certain, that will hold fine.

Hence, when you try to verbally usher a guy through his mental blockage while he's in the tree, it's like trying to push a mule. He may not be able to take what you're saying as rational. He then becomes emotional and forgets the facts all the more...

My thoughts.
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A buddy of mine told me that when he first started climbing he was tying in to extremely small diameter limbs and this was years ago. He explained that alot of guys that were really old school questioned him on this. His ratinonal thinking was that they build houses out of two by fours so if you can put a house on it why won't it hold a climber's weight. That comment gave me more confidence about my TIP. Granted it differs from species probly not going to try pushing the limit of a Poplar. Thats were education and common sense comes into play. Most of this profession is mental. I believe you have to be mentally tough for this job. Some people have it some don't.
 
the mental game is were it all plays out. A mentalist/entertainer in Canada called "The Amazing Kreskin" did a simple demonstration of the power of the mind by having subjects walk a line on the floor- with no problems- then walk it again with the notion that it was many feet in the air. The same subjects struggled to stay balanced on the line. The stakes being higher plays on people's confidence and undermines them.
 
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the mental game is were it all plays out. A mentalist/entertainer in Canada called "The Amazing Kreskin" did a simple demonstration of the power of the mind by having subjects walk a line on the floor- with no problems- then walk it again with the notion that it was many feet in the air. The same subjects struggled to stay balanced on the line. The stakes being higher plays on people's confidence and undermines them.

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Exactly! Sit on the edge of a 3' wall and you are fine but sit on the edge of a cliff and you feel like any little breeze is going to blow you off the edge or something. This is a great thread!
 
This post started about concerns with a new climber and the mental/physical challenges of climbing. The posts were very helpful. I have actually applied allot of the advice in my new employee training plan.
 
When I first got into the actual aerial work i was more uncomfortable in the bucket than climbing. I had no problem functioning in normal working conditions; moving about the canopy in the bucket, wrecking down trees. It was when the boom had to be fully extended vertical that I had to just say to myself, its okay don't look down. Atop a fiberglass boom at 65 feet there is definitely a lot more sway and there is an even more "nothingness" below you.

actree, do you have a good sized aerial lift? and if so, is your employee comfortable in that? Just bu looking at this fact, you can see whether it is the height that is unnerving or the equipment used to get him to that height now.

-Steven
 
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