New climber lost his nerve
- Thread starter actree
- Start date
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Did you ask him what happened up there? What was going through his mind? What was it that triggered the fear? Without getting him to process the experience he won't be able to identify the source and deal with it. Walk through it with him to get to the exact point he started feeling the fear and what he did. Then you can devise a plan to help him overcome it. Assure him that his employment with the company is not in jeopardy and that you want to help him achieve his goals.
Does he recognize the irrational quality of his fear? I had a classmate bail out after the second day of climbing. He couldn't get any further than about 4' out on a limb and not much more than half way up a 60' maple. All attempts to allay his fears and suggestions as to how to overcome whatever was at the root of them were of no use.
If he's unwilling or unable to process this then you may have no other choice than to put him back on the ground crew.
Does he recognize the irrational quality of his fear? I had a classmate bail out after the second day of climbing. He couldn't get any further than about 4' out on a limb and not much more than half way up a 60' maple. All attempts to allay his fears and suggestions as to how to overcome whatever was at the root of them were of no use.
If he's unwilling or unable to process this then you may have no other choice than to put him back on the ground crew.
- Location
- under grace
its normal...lots of good things said so far in this thread.. i like humpers thing ask question,,,,then employ some of the aformentioned stuff...talk him through it and go back to some smalller more managable stuff..but get him back up!!
- Location
- Sioux City, Iowa
One thing I thought of was when I drank if I drank a little too much the night before I was not on my game the next day. I still get that uneasy feeling once in a while and I have to just stop and look around and breath and relax.
Frax
Participating member
Great thread and it shows just how supportive you guys are encouraging new climbers.
I've never experienced that frozen feeling, and have never felt real fear about heights while climbing on rope. Perhaps it was a vertigo attack. I have heard it can happen to somewhat experienced climbers too.
But is there a possibility it was less a fear for himself than a performance anxiety? Am I going to be fast enough? Can I remember my knots. Will I cut right? I've had it where I struggled for awhile remembering knots I knew well enough when confronted with a lot of new tasks at height. It gets resolved but might take a moment.
If a lot of new skills are about to be performed when the recently achieved skills have barely settled in, it might be overwhelming. If that might be more the case, then as some here have suggested, simplifying what is required at height for a few climbs until he regains confidence might be in order.
Good luck with him. I hope its just temporary.
I've never experienced that frozen feeling, and have never felt real fear about heights while climbing on rope. Perhaps it was a vertigo attack. I have heard it can happen to somewhat experienced climbers too.
But is there a possibility it was less a fear for himself than a performance anxiety? Am I going to be fast enough? Can I remember my knots. Will I cut right? I've had it where I struggled for awhile remembering knots I knew well enough when confronted with a lot of new tasks at height. It gets resolved but might take a moment.
If a lot of new skills are about to be performed when the recently achieved skills have barely settled in, it might be overwhelming. If that might be more the case, then as some here have suggested, simplifying what is required at height for a few climbs until he regains confidence might be in order.
Good luck with him. I hope its just temporary.
- Location
- Bend, Oregon
My first year climbing I stood 80' up in a pine for a good 20 minutes. It had approx. a 60 degree lean to it and I froze up, just couldn't wrap my head around what to do next. Just had to eventually breathe, relax, and plan what to do in order to move forward. So much good advice on here, but I think it is easier to verbalize than it is to actually do for a new climber. It really is all about having a solid mental state, being confident, and comfortable. I have found that talking a new climber through the next step can get them moving again and help them push past their block.
- Location
- BC, Canada
Was it maybe his first time in a tree that moves around a lot? That freaks some guys out the first few times. Especially some rock climbers I've taken on rec tree climbs, "Whoa now, do they always move around like this?"
I'll never forget this time with one arborist, really good ornamentals pruner, hired on with the company with the understanding that he was not comfortable with big trees, big removals, but had other skills. Fair enough. So we both went up in these two smallish Garry Oaks, max forty footers which I knew was pushing his limits and this gusting breeze came up in off the water. Nothing serious, I was digging it, love that reminder that I'm climbing a living organism. I looked over at him, see how it's going and he's clamped himself to the trunk, both arms AND knees, had his face jammed into his shoulder and his eyes squeezed shut. I think he may have been crying.
Anyway as soon as the wind died, he was straight to ground, started dragging brush to the chipper, and for the rest of the day was all apologetic for jamming out, saying he let himself down, let me down, yada yada. I was OK, if you can't do it, you can't do it.
He wasn't there much longer after that, I think he colates data in a government insurance office now.
----------------------
I've posted in another thread here about a mistake I made early in my training days. Absolutely burned down my rope by freezing up just after the start of my rappel, and panicked, unable to let go of my grip on the hitch.
That made me distrust myself and my gear, my system. I had to solve that problem before the next climbing class, which was every wednesday. That weekend I took my gear to some trees in a secluded corner of a park near my apartment. Got my ropes intalled and went up 10'. OK that works. Came down in 2' increments. Went up 15'. OK that works. Came down in maybe 5' increments. Went up 20'...and so on until I was at the top and knew everything would be fine. This rope system works, and I can work this system.
Point is, I identified my problem and worked out a plan to restore my confidence and got beyond it.
Your young climber knows he jammed out, does he know why? You've invested in him, I would ask him point blank, "What happened up there, you were doing well, now you've had this little set back. How come?"
Hopefully this conversation then moves to, "How do think you can get past this, and what do you need from me to help."
If he identifies his problem and you both work it out, sunny days. But business is business, and you may have to say, "If you can't find a way forward, you should start thinking about a way out."
Northwind
I'll never forget this time with one arborist, really good ornamentals pruner, hired on with the company with the understanding that he was not comfortable with big trees, big removals, but had other skills. Fair enough. So we both went up in these two smallish Garry Oaks, max forty footers which I knew was pushing his limits and this gusting breeze came up in off the water. Nothing serious, I was digging it, love that reminder that I'm climbing a living organism. I looked over at him, see how it's going and he's clamped himself to the trunk, both arms AND knees, had his face jammed into his shoulder and his eyes squeezed shut. I think he may have been crying.
Anyway as soon as the wind died, he was straight to ground, started dragging brush to the chipper, and for the rest of the day was all apologetic for jamming out, saying he let himself down, let me down, yada yada. I was OK, if you can't do it, you can't do it.
He wasn't there much longer after that, I think he colates data in a government insurance office now.
----------------------
I've posted in another thread here about a mistake I made early in my training days. Absolutely burned down my rope by freezing up just after the start of my rappel, and panicked, unable to let go of my grip on the hitch.
That made me distrust myself and my gear, my system. I had to solve that problem before the next climbing class, which was every wednesday. That weekend I took my gear to some trees in a secluded corner of a park near my apartment. Got my ropes intalled and went up 10'. OK that works. Came down in 2' increments. Went up 15'. OK that works. Came down in maybe 5' increments. Went up 20'...and so on until I was at the top and knew everything would be fine. This rope system works, and I can work this system.
Point is, I identified my problem and worked out a plan to restore my confidence and got beyond it.
Your young climber knows he jammed out, does he know why? You've invested in him, I would ask him point blank, "What happened up there, you were doing well, now you've had this little set back. How come?"
Hopefully this conversation then moves to, "How do think you can get past this, and what do you need from me to help."
If he identifies his problem and you both work it out, sunny days. But business is business, and you may have to say, "If you can't find a way forward, you should start thinking about a way out."
Northwind
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
This is a very good thread and hopefully your climber will get over his fears, but let him know that fear is good and is actually our friend, not our enemy.
Here's a short article by Sebastian Junger (author of The Perfect Storm) about FEAR. At the end of the article, he talks a little about his fear that he used to face as a commercial arborist.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/sebastian-junger/fear-sierra-leone.html
Here's a short article by Sebastian Junger (author of The Perfect Storm) about FEAR. At the end of the article, he talks a little about his fear that he used to face as a commercial arborist.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/sebastian-junger/fear-sierra-leone.html
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
You just have to let him climb some more and have an experienced climber on the ground to give hime confidence.
He'll either get past it or keep choking up. If he keeps choking he probably doesn't belong at height.
He'll either get past it or keep choking up. If he keeps choking he probably doesn't belong at height.
Bixler
Participating member
- Location
- Nevada City, CA
Tell him your gonna have to take all his gear back and hire a real man if he can't muster up the courage to do his job!
No, I look back at my first large pine takedown and when I got 100ft up and noticed two tops it freaked me out. I had someone with 20yrs experience in the bucket below yelling at me that the tree was not going to break, TRUST IT! he yelled, and for me that's what it took.
If anything tree climbing puts you in the HERE AND NOW. It's all mental.
No, I look back at my first large pine takedown and when I got 100ft up and noticed two tops it freaked me out. I had someone with 20yrs experience in the bucket below yelling at me that the tree was not going to break, TRUST IT! he yelled, and for me that's what it took.
If anything tree climbing puts you in the HERE AND NOW. It's all mental.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
actree,
If he's really committed to getting over it....
He'll do it.... but you can help.
When I first started climbing, I was a mess.
Mortified. Frozen... didn't understand my gear, nor trust it.
Didn't understand tree mechanics...nor trust it.
I fell out of a pine as a kid. Fooling around and broke the top out of it... landed on my back. Lost my wind.. thought I was gonna die... when the blackout hit....
Woke up and didn't get back into trees until I changed careers in my late 30's.......
Like Northwind wrote.... about the self-knowledge of the problem.. he knew where the problem was and addressed it.
I did the same... I began reading books on tree mechanics, bought OnRope, Fundamentals of tree work, Tree climbers guide, and every other title I could find... Joined Treebuzz... then researched rope, friction hitches, biner construction... YouTubed destruction testing.... then I decided I wanted to learn to splice.
Since understanding my environment aloft and my tools... I've been able to take the adrenaline, elevated heartbeat, heightened senses and knowledge.... and turn them to my advantage in the tree... now it's meditation for me.
Like Orobos said... take him on a rec-climb and go through those steps... but make him aware of the the tree mechanics and effort that goes into making our tools safe for us to use.... Then he'll begin to understand how it all works together....
But only if he's committed to making a go at it.
Bring him to NH.. I'll spend a day with you guys.
I remember how real my fear was... It's only right to help someone else get over theirs.
Peace
PS.. if anyone wants to learn how to splice... there's a spot still open for 'Fids & Fibers' this week!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Renaissance-Acres-Tree-Care/107475099309399?ref=ts
If he's really committed to getting over it....
He'll do it.... but you can help.
When I first started climbing, I was a mess.
Mortified. Frozen... didn't understand my gear, nor trust it.
Didn't understand tree mechanics...nor trust it.
I fell out of a pine as a kid. Fooling around and broke the top out of it... landed on my back. Lost my wind.. thought I was gonna die... when the blackout hit....
Woke up and didn't get back into trees until I changed careers in my late 30's.......
Like Northwind wrote.... about the self-knowledge of the problem.. he knew where the problem was and addressed it.
I did the same... I began reading books on tree mechanics, bought OnRope, Fundamentals of tree work, Tree climbers guide, and every other title I could find... Joined Treebuzz... then researched rope, friction hitches, biner construction... YouTubed destruction testing.... then I decided I wanted to learn to splice.
Since understanding my environment aloft and my tools... I've been able to take the adrenaline, elevated heartbeat, heightened senses and knowledge.... and turn them to my advantage in the tree... now it's meditation for me.
Like Orobos said... take him on a rec-climb and go through those steps... but make him aware of the the tree mechanics and effort that goes into making our tools safe for us to use.... Then he'll begin to understand how it all works together....
But only if he's committed to making a go at it.
Bring him to NH.. I'll spend a day with you guys.
I remember how real my fear was... It's only right to help someone else get over theirs.
Peace
PS.. if anyone wants to learn how to splice... there's a spot still open for 'Fids & Fibers' this week!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Renaissance-Acres-Tree-Care/107475099309399?ref=ts
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
I think for me part of the solution was first, I understood the fears that I would be dealing with given that I had fallen off a roof prior to this career. It was about consciously processing the various sources of anxiety, relying on a rope, biner, saddle, limb, etc. More importantly was remembering that I had committed to doing the job. I asked for it so, I needed to deal with it. Another attitude I developed was that once the job was delegated to me I had to get it done. There wasn't another climber to do it. The job was mine to figure out and get done.
Work with him as long as he's willing it delve into his own psyche.
Work with him as long as he's willing it delve into his own psyche.
- Location
- Bainbridge Island, WA
Hi all,
I've been climbing a bit for some years now, mostly recreationally until recently started a bit of production work and training in that dept. Adding in a hand saw and chainsaw to the mix of things to think about while aloft was one thing - adding all the dynamics of how trees react when you cut parts off them while aloft was another. Funny thing was this has equaled me being more nervous sometimes than swaying in the breeze up in a 250 foot Doug fir.
Just last week I was embarrassed that I got jitters in a big old crusty oak and had to come down to let my co-workers finish the job chunking out huge pieces. To their immense credit there wasn't any hesitation, teasing or prodding why I was giving up - they took over and we got the job done. When I fessed up later that I had been nervous and embarrassed (maybe a bit harder for a girl crew member who is trying to hold her own), turns out a lot of people have been there. I was more grateful of my crew not focusing on my low moment but letting me know they know I can climb and they've seen me work without hesitation before.
I thought a lot about what made me nervous - I was all set with systems, my gear was great, groundies were aware and smart and I don't have a fear of heights (really). For me, the fear came from not having any experience before that day working in a crusty old oak with a chainsaw. I could trust every part of the job except the unknowns about how the tree was going to react. Simple as that. I hope next time I'm in one I'll do better having got the "feel" from that one day.
Props to you for asking about how to support your new crew and hope you get some insight from all the great responses here.
I've been climbing a bit for some years now, mostly recreationally until recently started a bit of production work and training in that dept. Adding in a hand saw and chainsaw to the mix of things to think about while aloft was one thing - adding all the dynamics of how trees react when you cut parts off them while aloft was another. Funny thing was this has equaled me being more nervous sometimes than swaying in the breeze up in a 250 foot Doug fir.
Just last week I was embarrassed that I got jitters in a big old crusty oak and had to come down to let my co-workers finish the job chunking out huge pieces. To their immense credit there wasn't any hesitation, teasing or prodding why I was giving up - they took over and we got the job done. When I fessed up later that I had been nervous and embarrassed (maybe a bit harder for a girl crew member who is trying to hold her own), turns out a lot of people have been there. I was more grateful of my crew not focusing on my low moment but letting me know they know I can climb and they've seen me work without hesitation before.
I thought a lot about what made me nervous - I was all set with systems, my gear was great, groundies were aware and smart and I don't have a fear of heights (really). For me, the fear came from not having any experience before that day working in a crusty old oak with a chainsaw. I could trust every part of the job except the unknowns about how the tree was going to react. Simple as that. I hope next time I'm in one I'll do better having got the "feel" from that one day.
Props to you for asking about how to support your new crew and hope you get some insight from all the great responses here.
djm
Participating member
- Location
- Seacoast NH
After 16 years of tree work I still get scared. I just go through my mental checklist which tells me the tree is strong enough, that my gear will hold me. That ive done it 1000 times before. Then I think for me I have to tell myself my emotions are unfounded and proceed with doing my job. I'm a pretty logical person so I am able to reason my way through it.
I don't think I ever want to be "fearless". The fear I have keeps me aware.
Thats where I want to be.
I think most guys and gals hit a point where they get scared about the consequences of what can happen. Thats a good thing. Your guy should have enough knowledge to reason through it. He will have to work through that fear his entire career.
Good luck!
I don't think I ever want to be "fearless". The fear I have keeps me aware.
Thats where I want to be.
I think most guys and gals hit a point where they get scared about the consequences of what can happen. Thats a good thing. Your guy should have enough knowledge to reason through it. He will have to work through that fear his entire career.
Good luck!
There is some great input here.
He is going back to being a great groundsman and holding off (his choice) on the climbing part.
The great thing about this guy is he is open and honest. IMO, it is better to have a great groundsman than a hurting climber.
He is going back to being a great groundsman and holding off (his choice) on the climbing part.
The great thing about this guy is he is open and honest. IMO, it is better to have a great groundsman than a hurting climber.
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
[ QUOTE ]
Chris,
Thanks for the link, that was a great read.
Did you see RESTREPO
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah Tom. RESTREPO was a great movie.
Two summers ago, I went down to Gloucester MA to meet Sebastian Junger and listen to him speak about the movie. Got a chance to talk with him afterwards and he saw that I was wearing an Arborwear teeshirt. Next thing you know we are talking about climbing trees and how much he misses that work. He's a real cool guy.
Chris,
Thanks for the link, that was a great read.
Did you see RESTREPO
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah Tom. RESTREPO was a great movie.
Two summers ago, I went down to Gloucester MA to meet Sebastian Junger and listen to him speak about the movie. Got a chance to talk with him afterwards and he saw that I was wearing an Arborwear teeshirt. Next thing you know we are talking about climbing trees and how much he misses that work. He's a real cool guy.
- Location
- Randolph, MA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chris,
Thanks for the link, that was a great read.
Did you see RESTREPO
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah Tom. RESTREPO was a great movie.
Two summers ago, I went down to Gloucester MA to meet Sebastian Junger and listen to him speak about the movie. Got a chance to talk with him afterwards and he saw that I was wearing an Arborwear teeshirt. Next thing you know we are talking about climbing trees and how much he misses that work. He's a real cool guy.
[/ QUOTE ]
At the end of Restrepo they talk about one of the guys who became great friends with Sebastian and got into tree work. He works with my arb friend around the corner. Totally hilarious great guy. You'd never have any idea meeting him that he went through all that. Great documentary.
[ QUOTE ]
Chris,
Thanks for the link, that was a great read.
Did you see RESTREPO
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah Tom. RESTREPO was a great movie.
Two summers ago, I went down to Gloucester MA to meet Sebastian Junger and listen to him speak about the movie. Got a chance to talk with him afterwards and he saw that I was wearing an Arborwear teeshirt. Next thing you know we are talking about climbing trees and how much he misses that work. He's a real cool guy.
[/ QUOTE ]
At the end of Restrepo they talk about one of the guys who became great friends with Sebastian and got into tree work. He works with my arb friend around the corner. Totally hilarious great guy. You'd never have any idea meeting him that he went through all that. Great documentary.
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