New article up ....

Wow, great article. And yet another great discussion on the topic.

My take on the issue is this: If you outlaw everything then you'll turn everyone into outlaws. Like speed limits in the U.S. for example, and marijuana prohibition, and tall grass ordinances. When some rules become so restrictive that they cannot be followed then people may simply ignore ALL the rules.

Yes there are some real cowboys/outlaws in this industry but if through realistic training and education we could somehow reach out to them and bring some of them into the light then maybe we really could lower our incident rates. But by simply banning any practice that could get you hurt I'm afraid we just drive them further into the dark (and closer to an injury).

At Saluting Branches today I witnessed some very questionable climbing skills and work practices and wondered "how on earth are these guys even in this business?" I took a couple moments to politely talk with the offenders and I plan on reaching out to their boss to see if they could use some "productivity" training. I've learned that when you call it Safety training they just yawn and think about all the money they just spent on green vests, but when you say Productivity it triggers happy thoughts of more work getting done.
 
@Jake_W totally get what your saying about climbers becoming dependant, think it applies to some ofy work habits. I am still working out some of the times where I do it unnecessarily. I aim to not do it at all really one day, mainly for the longevity of my elbows and wrists. (Joint pains)

It's hard (for me) to comment on the rights or wrongs of it. It's like the tie in twice when using the saw. I bet there's two hand-er sticklers who don't always tie in twice. But I always do it
And full disclosure to all those who think two handed use ensures safety, I cut my face with a saw with two hands on the 362 thumbs wrapped and all. It was user error for sure, but just saying there's more to protecting yourself than using two hands.
 
I think of one handing a top handle as just another tool in the box. It doesn't happen all the time but I certainly use it when it makes the most sense. I can understand the concerns about teaching it as the norm but I think that like all tools in our mind it should at least be discussed.

I am going to assume that everyone always drives with both hands on the wheel also, since it is what we were all taught and is still the law. ;)
 
I will just say to add to the white noise here, I am glad I did not form the one handing habit as a new climber. It is only recently that I have begun one handing with any sort of frequency, and feeling comfortable with my reasoning to make the decision. And I'm just about ten years in now.
 
Can of worms has been opened and obviously a very controversial issue in the industry..
I just started reading it the other day and applaud Treebuzz for publishing it....
If a large percentage of the climbers and bucket ops use this as SOP, then let's talk about that... the pros and cons and what to avoid etc..
One thing I;d like to see as part of the discussion is the difference between being on rope and in the bucket.. obviously much better balanced in bucket and no chance of cutting your rope. Cut and chuck may be better in some scenarios... And how about talking about climber/op's experience as a factor..
 
"To ensure reliable control, wrap your thumbs tightly around the handlebar and handle.” (Stihl MS201T Instruction Manual)

You have got to love a company that gives you instructions like this and provides a space next to the kill switch to use your thumb for more leverage while one handing.
 
Daniel said:
Can of worms has been opened and obviously a very controversial issue in the industry..
I just started reading it the other day and applaud Treebuzz for publishing it....
If a large percentage of the climbers and bucket ops use this as SOP, then let's talk about that... the pros and cons and what to avoid etc..
One thing I;d like to see as part of the discussion is the difference between being on rope and in the bucket.. obviously much better balanced in bucket and no chance of cutting your rope. Cut and chuck may be better in some scenarios... And how about talking about climber/op's experience as a factor..
Click to expand...

I agree. I never really started one handing until I started using a bucket. What I like is in a bucket you can often pick the size of the limb you want to cut because you can get way out to the end. Also, you can very easily hold the limb and return your saw to the scabbard and then throw the limb. Must more stable in a bucket truck.
 
Is upper body chainsaw protection mandated? It would save some injuries.

It would cause some injuries, too.

No free lunch.
Buyer beware.




I don't always two-hand the saw designed for occasional one-handed use, while tying my life-line to a dead, decayed tree, in the wind and rain, while relying on an employee to correctly handle the rope to not shock-load the tree, or crush me with swinging wood. True story.

Two hands are better. I rarely use my 200t while climbing. 192t. A 150t will be better.
The cutting speed of my climbing saw is not MY production bottle neck. I prefer a powerful saw for cuts requiring it, or dropping logs/ firewood. 192t to 460 yesterday.

one-handing a200t is a lot harder on a body, and bucket work especially.


not discussing do's and don'ts of one-handed use is like saying we don't need to teach sex education just abstinence. It's like telling drivers they don't need to be more aware about oversteering when driving faster just don't drive fast or speed.

Wood teaching about do's and don'ts one hand operation reduce injuries?
 
Occassional one handed use is a necessity. My feeling is that the argument against one handed saw cutting is really an argument against an entire style of tree removal, that is to say, the sort of style where the cutter is one handing and cutting and chucking all the way through the canopy. That posture, that approach, you know, zip zipping away while cutting and chucking, even as the branches are big and slippery. The article especially pointed out this danger, as did the Husky manual just cited. To me the argument against one handed cutting isn't about occassional one handed cuts that are necessary (and safe!), but against the zippedy doo da day style that one handed Zorros needlessly affect. We've all seen this character in bucket truck, cut and chuck the whole tree in little tiny pieces. A thousand cuts, a thousand instances where the left hand passed over the front plane of the powerhead and was laterally adjacent to the running cutters.

Rules have to be shaped around the common practitioner. A rule 'no one handing' has exceptions. But it is said that exceptional cases make for bad law. The common man is not the expert. The expert is one who understands the rationale for the rule and can further explain why this particular use of one handing is safer than two handing. I can think of several instances where one handing is preferable and could defend that on grounds of safety. On the other hand, I recognize the general undesirability and lack of control that one handing risks and see the general prohibition being a sound policy. Best policy is calibrated towards average users. You don't want your groundsmen being trained in this way, nor your first couple year climbers. Sets a very bad precedent. If they have to consider using a one handed cut, I'd recommend they ask the Foreman for advice as to whether this is the safest practice.
 
Last edited:
Havent really got much energy for it, Rog.

I think limb walking should be banned....maybe spurring too. Cranework, stormwork, falling entire trees perhaps. Using heavy saws even. In fact, anything where natural aptitude, intuition, ability and experience may dictate a strategy....ban it, and bring everyone down to the same level of shitness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger
Back
Top Bottom