Lost bid - pissed!

I'm with macro. Clients don't actually deserve to have their unwarranted needs met. That's why a professional is there to educate them. If they want to be ignorant and ignore advice, then they get bad tree work from someone who doesn't care (except about the paycheck). It's a shame because it is something that affects the whole community. My passion for the trade does not involve doing hack work to get paid.
 
I have to chime in on this one as I'm facing alot of the same thing in the area I just moved to. Bad practices are commonplace and asked for by the client regularly. Why? because it's what they see everywhere they look. I agree that people come before trees but not their unreasonable expectations. In my experience when a client wants something drastic done to a tree or they say they would like it 'smaller' they have a difficult if not impossible time articulating why. They simply 'feel' it should be reduced. After breaking it down with them what it is exactly they'd like to achieve be it increased safety, aesthetics, light, or structure proximity I can almost always find a better way to achieve it than what they had in mind. And surprise surprise, they're always happier with what I've done in the end! If there is no way around a massive reduction then the conclusion must be drawn that it's the wrong tree for the site. In that case sure, do a severe reduction but with the aim of eventual removal and in the interim plant a more appropriate species and the drawn out removal should give it time to be a more established replacement. Use the opportunity for education rather than appeasement because in the end the only way to make bad practices stand out to the general public the way they do to us is to make them the exception, not the norm
 
"in the end the only way to make bad practices stand out to the general public the way they do to us is to make them the exception, not the norm"


This is very true!
 
Of corse all other avenues are pursued first that should go without saying, but you are on the wrong side of this business if you aren't concerned about pleasing the customer first. More trees can be saved by meeting the primary customers needs, meaning if reduction saves the tree from the felling ax and leads to one more consultation for an on the fence client that leads to client being taught proper tree care then so be it. Cause I know that the reduction I do will be within specs versus someone else's crappy top job. So I think most of you need to consider what is most important you and your crews family's and one tree (or a hundred)saved from a crappy top job and given a proper yet unmerited reduction or pride and crappy top jobs abound
 
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This job was bid on through email. Corporate sent the specs through email and there was no one on site to meet with (no personal contact to build a repore). I bid on the job according to their specs. They probably did take the lowest bidder, but the work that was completed did not even remotely fit the their specs. Thats why the rant.

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Looking at this in hindsight you can learn about how these things work. When I was in sales, I jumped all over RFPs thinking this was big money. I learned very quickly that there are players who are geared specifically to capture these bids. They can come in at half the price of the competitors and still make money.

Without being able to talk to someone directly then walk away from it. What I'd take away from this is to identify those commercial clients you'd like to work with and believe show a desire to protect and preserve their trees and contact them before any RFP is sent out.

It's good that you are willing to uphold your standards.
 
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It's good that you are willing to uphold your standards.

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Good? Outstanding. I say 100 percent. Stick to your guns. Try to find these guys behind these emails, I am sure they would be glad to meet you and your desire. It's not a money job, you see something you can contribute and you should keep trying to sell your idea. It's how one can get ahead in this plastic world we live in. This is an inspiring thread.
 
There seems to be an assumption that Lowes actually wanted the work done to industry standards. Their PR people are smart enough to know that a "green" image is good for business nowadays, it doesn't mean they care more about it than their bottom line. Here's how I see it, Lowes knows that if they send out an RFP requesting clearly sub-standard work there will be a public backlash and there will be documented contradictions to a "green" image. How do they get around that? They have their people hire a consulting arborist to help write the proposal, then, when the lowest bidder doesn't uphold those standards they can issue a statement saying that the work was not done to spec. Their butt is covered, their bottom line is secure and nobody can really hold them accountable for actually not giving a damn about trees.
 
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There seems to be an assumption that Lowes actually wanted the work done to industry standards. Their PR people are smart enough to know that a "green" image is good for business nowadays, it doesn't mean they care more about it than their bottom line. Here's how I see it, Lowes knows that if they send out an RFP requesting clearly sub-standard work there will be a public backlash and there will be documented contradictions to a "green" image. How do they get around that? They have their people hire a consulting arborist to help write the proposal, then, when the lowest bidder doesn't uphold those standards they can issue a statement saying that the work was not done to spec. Their butt is covered, their bottom line is secure and nobody can really hold them accountable for actually not giving a damn about trees.

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Yep. Well stated, Ted.
 
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Yeah, now all you need to do is have an eco group call them out on it. Don't do it on your own otherwise you'll be blackballed!
 
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Yeah, now all you need to do is have an eco group call them out on it. Don't do it on your own otherwise you'll be blackballed!

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If we, through this forum, can document a trend we might actually be able to change they way they play the game. Does anyone else have examples of similar experiences? If so, let's start a thread exposing corporate abuses of Arboricultural standards. Aaaaaand Go!
 
Well, good on you guys who won't do sh1t-quality work even if that's what the client insists on in the end.

And like most of you say, you can usually move teh customer away from atrocious work if you question them on what they actually want properly and respectfully.

I realize that it's easier to walk away from a job for someone who mainly works on their own rather than someone who is responsible for keeping crews active 40 hours a week in some markets, but....

Those of you who maintain decent standards are helping move this business forward.

Those of you who will ultimately do anything the customer asks (whether or not you made your pitch for better work halfheartedly or with a little more conviction)are helping keep this business in the dark ages.
 
So Nora your pitch is just walk away from paying customers wanting pruning done to ANSI standards just because my idea of how THEIR tree should look is not being taken into consideration? that is keeping us in tge dark ages. we should take all pruning jobs and do them to customer requirements and ANSI standards, that will take us out of the dark ages. This holyer than that job attitude is what is letting these uneducated knuckleheads stay in business
 
Obviously there is some conflict between the A300 and how some poeple want their trees pruned. I believe thats the point.

Hatracking isnt anywhere to be found in the standard I dont think.
 
Well that is when reeducation must occur. Most customers will understand where a proper reduction is supposed to be cut too. If you are starting a pollard then it doesn't matter where you make the cut only that the cuts need to be made every year or two
 
I guess that's exactly what I'm saying. I WOULD walk away from a topping or hat-racking job. I don't see how this keeps the profession in the dark ages.
I have not read the A300 in some time, so I don't remember exactly what the specs are in there, and I never said anything about the specs in my comment above anyway. But I do know sh1t work when I see it. And I won't do it.
 
Jeff,
Correct me if I am wrong, but you are saying fulfill the customers wishes if they fit with in the ANSI pruning guidelines?

With that I agree. I question how you define pollarding. It is not topping and if done properly no inproper pruning cuts are ever made ( i.e. internodal, extream heading. ect.)

You are very correct in understanding thapeople are our clients and customer service is just about everything. However, build trust through accepted practices, work safe, keep your crew and the public safe, do your best by the trees and charge a fair price and that trust will come. It will come through repeat business, referrals and the satisfaction of a hard job well done.

With that all comes a burden. You see you cannot buy a reputation but you can sell one. All too often it goes at fire sale prices!

I have always worked for companies who walk away from people who want bad pruning or clearance. That is the best time to hand some of your worst possible customers over to your competition. Say I am sorry I cannot help you but maybe this company can and hand them the competition's card.

Tony
 
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