Looking for "Small" Chipper advice

[Reach]

Thanks @Reach. Good thoughts again. Hopefully that's what you meant.

Anyway, I've done more research on this machine.

The original owner was Grand Rental Station, and there appear to be many of those, so it was going to take some effort to find which one (by calling many?)

I emailed the service guy at Bandit for a potential mechanic in Williamsburg (particularly maybe one at a rental yard that had Bandits). This was his reply:
"If the hours are accurate or even close, which, by the condition of the chipper (in the video of them starting it up) it appears they are in the ballpark, it looks pretty sound.
Bandit chippers by design are pretty bullet proof.
If the engine is in good working order, that would be your biggest concern, in my mind.
You saw it start and run on video by the sounds which should be comforting to you.
Any part on it is still readily available which should also ease your mind.
From everything I’ve seen and heard so far it appears to be in good working order"

I wasn't quite content (actual hours and is the seller a schister...) with that so I called Corporate again and got the receptionist looking up info for me on the serial number, and dug up some interesting things that had not been known before: In 2015 the machine was brought back to Bandit corporate as a trade in. They checked it out and sold it to a construction company w/ 282 hrs on it for $8250. So they've had it in their hands 4 years ago and they appeared to feel like 282 hours was accurate.

They gave me the name of the construction company on the invoice and I've looked them up and put in a call to them to see if they are willing to give me any info - condition and trade in amount. They called me back and said the machine worked great and the place that has it is a well respected company w/ reputation for being honest, and he even has an extra set of brand new knives he'll pass on to me... He had bought the machine because of a major storm that had come through and there was major wait for tree folks to get to the houses that he needed to work on because of all the widespread tree damage, and then the machine just sat there after that.

This machine is looking really darned good at the moment. I'm feeling a big road trip coming on. Still don't know the info that the service guy was originally suggesting I get for him - condition of knives, knife pockets and disc bearings, and whether the hydraulics appear to work.

I also got the name of a rental yard in Williamsburg from Bandit who has a 2012 Bandit 65, to see about having them check out the machine, which at this point I could be willing to forego?? (A little concerned about adding more expenses.) I could also set up a check up at Bandit corporate on my way home w/ the chipper? (the machine is running at 2330RPM and should be at 2400, and the service guy thought it might be a stretched throttle cable.) The closest dealer to me once I get home is over 2 hrs away.

So - from Corporate it was $8250 in 2015, what should I be offering the place that has it now - they are asking $7995, which does not appear to be a fixed price since the salesperson at some point had said "until we agree on a number." I'm thinking about asking for $7,500 taxes and everything out the door (and they make sure highway lights are working.)


Scott

Yes, that’s exactly what I was suggesting you do, @Shelter's Edge. That machine sounds to me like everything you’re looking for, and with that few hours I would not be too worried about the knives and pockets, besides to have the knives sharpened if they’re dull. And keep up on them, sharp knives work much better and are easier on the machine than dull knives.

You could have Bandit corporate or a dealer check out the chipper for you, or I am sure there is a decent little shop in your area that is fully capable as well. Personally, I am not fond of dealer maintenance as it is so expensive. We only call a dealer if something unique to that brand needs diagnosis/repair - usually that is proprietary equipment, such as the engine computer.

 

[Shelter's Edge]

Yes, that’s exactly what I was suggesting you do, @Shelter's Edge. That machine sounds to me like everything you’re looking for, and with that few hours I would not be too worried about the knives and pockets, besides to have the knives sharpened if they’re dull. And keep up on them, sharp knives work much better and are easier on the machine than dull knives.

You could have Bandit corporate or a dealer check out the chipper for you, or I am sure there is a decent little shop in your area that is fully capable as well. Personally, I am not fond of dealer maintenance as it is so expensive. We only call a dealer if something unique to that brand needs diagnosis/repair - usually that is proprietary equipment, such as the engine computer.

Thanks @Reach.

I think I'm going to pursue this one. It does seem like everything I'm looking for in a machine to me. And I do have a small equipment rental yard about 5 minutes away from home where I purchased my track hoe. They are the ones with the 9" terex chipper that they hate. It actually doesn't sound like the Bandit 65 will really need anything checked out anyway, just a working battery since its its been sitting and check the knives, and knives are pretty easy to get to. The Bandit Repair tech noticed the tach running at 2330 and said it should be 2400. Is 70 RPM power cut worth pursuing a throttle cable over (if that is even why its running low)?

 

[Barc Buster]

Thanks @Reach.

I think I'm going to pursue this one. It does seem like everything I'm looking for in a machine to me. And I do have a small equipment rental yard about 5 minutes away from home where I purchased my track hoe. They are the ones with the 9" terex chipper that they hate. It actually doesn't sound like the Bandit 65 will really need anything checked out anyway, just a working battery since its its been sitting and check the knives, and knives are pretty easy to get to. The Bandit Repair tech noticed the tach running at 2330 and said it should be 2400. Is 70 RPM power cut worth pursuing a throttle cable over (if that is even why its running low)?

Depends on the throttle. One of the little bandit 65's that I was renting was having auto feed issues. I figured out on my own that the throttle was creeping down off full throttle. I just used a bungee cord to keep it at full throttle and it worked fine.

 

[Reach]

Thanks @Reach.

I think I'm going to pursue this one. It does seem like everything I'm looking for in a machine to me. And I do have a small equipment rental yard about 5 minutes away from home where I purchased my track hoe. They are the ones with the 9" terex chipper that they hate. It actually doesn't sound like the Bandit 65 will really need anything checked out anyway, just a working battery since its its been sitting and check the knives, and knives are pretty easy to get to. The Bandit Repair tech noticed the tach running at 2330 and said it should be 2400. Is 70 RPM power cut worth pursuing a throttle cable over (if that is even why its running low)?

The RPMs could be low due to a throttle cable, or a governor that’s a little out of adjustment. I don’t know what engine that chipper has, or what the engine controls are - if it has a mechanical throttle cable, if you can, look at where it attaches on the engine side and see if it is pulling the lever it’s connected to against its stop. If not, the cable needs adjustment, which should be real easy. Maybe when you get it, post a couple photos, or give me a call and i can try to talk you through how to check it, as long as its not some crazy set of controls I’ve never seen.

 

[evo]

Thanks @Reach. Good thoughts again. Hopefully that's what you meant.

Anyway, I've done more research on this machine.

The original owner was Grand Rental Station, and there appear to be many of those, so it was going to take some effort to find which one (by calling many?)

I emailed the service guy at Bandit for a potential mechanic in Williamsburg (particularly maybe one at a rental yard that had Bandits). This was his reply:
"If the hours are accurate or even close, which, by the condition of the chipper (in the video of them starting it up) it appears they are in the ballpark, it looks pretty sound.
Bandit chippers by design are pretty bullet proof.
If the engine is in good working order, that would be your biggest concern, in my mind.
You saw it start and run on video by the sounds which should be comforting to you.
Any part on it is still readily available which should also ease your mind.
From everything I’ve seen and heard so far it appears to be in good working order"

I wasn't quite content (actual hours and is the seller a schister...) with that so I called Corporate again and got the receptionist looking up info for me on the serial number, and dug up some interesting things that had not been known before: In 2015 the machine was brought back to Bandit corporate as a trade in. They checked it out and sold it to a construction company w/ 282 hrs on it for $8250. So they've had it in their hands 4 years ago and they appeared to feel like 282 hours was accurate.

They gave me the name of the construction company on the invoice and I've looked them up and put in a call to them to see if they are willing to give me any info - condition and trade in amount. They called me back and said the machine worked great and the place that has it is a well respected company w/ reputation for being honest, and he even has an extra set of brand new knives he'll pass on to me... He had bought the machine because of a major storm that had come through and there was major wait for tree folks to get to the houses that he needed to work on because of all the widespread tree damage, and then the machine just sat there after that.

This machine is looking really darned good at the moment. I'm feeling a big road trip coming on. Still don't know the info that the service guy was originally suggesting I get for him - condition of knives, knife pockets and disc bearings, and whether the hydraulics appear to work.

I also got the name of a rental yard in Williamsburg from Bandit who has a 2012 Bandit 65, to see about having them check out the machine, which at this point I could be willing to forego?? (A little concerned about adding more expenses.) I could also set up a check up at Bandit corporate on my way home w/ the chipper? (the machine is running at 2330RPM and should be at 2400, and the service guy thought it might be a stretched throttle cable.) The closest dealer to me once I get home is over 2 hrs away.

So - from Corporate it was $8250 in 2015, what should I be offering the place that has it now - they are asking $7995, which does not appear to be a fixed price since the salesperson at some point had said "until we agree on a number." I'm thinking about asking for $7,500 taxes and everything out the door (and they make sure highway lights are working.)


Scott

My initial thoughts.

Rental machines kinda suck, and are often abused.

Chippers are pretty simple machines, the three big wear points are; engine, clutch, main disk bearings. Everything else is pretty simple, and easy to fix. A new clutch for my machine is about $1500, the disk bearings can be simple if everything goes right (rarely so) and can be fairly inexpensive for parts (but I'd budget 2-3 days if not a mechanic). Engine is a engine, so no lectures on that.

 

[evo]

Also if it's been sitting in their yard for 4 years, you should and could talk them down.

 

[Shelter's Edge]

Depends on the throttle. One of the little bandit 65's that I was renting was having auto feed issues. I figured out on my own that the throttle was creeping down off full throttle. I just used a bungee cord to keep it at full throttle and it worked fine.

Thanks for that Barc. Interesting you mentioned Auto Feed issues because the records that were located said that the purchaser brought back in for warrantee work in 2015 w/ "small auto feed" issue and likely associated with that was a replacement of the auto feed tach.

The RPMs could be low due to a throttle cable, or a governor that’s a little out of adjustment. I don’t know what engine that chipper has, or what the engine controls are - if it has a mechanical throttle cable, if you can, look at where it attaches on the engine side and see if it is pulling the lever it’s connected to against its stop. If not, the cable needs adjustment, which should be real easy. Maybe when you get it, post a couple photos, or give me a call and i can try to talk you through how to check it, as long as its not some crazy set of controls I’ve never seen.

Thanks @Reach. Throttle cable adjustment doesn't sound like that big of a deal. Adjusting a governer might take some pointers. Hopefully its as simple as something like that. I seriously doubt its a very technical set up being that its 2003 and 37HP Wisconsin Kohler. The seller finally returned my call at the end of the day, and I'm now on hold until at least Tuesday. He's going to look into the expense of possibly having it shipped. Then we'll talk numbers. He totally swagged at $600. But the deal has been set in motion.

 

[Shelter's Edge]

My initial thoughts.

Rental machines kinda suck, and are often abused.

Chippers are pretty simple machines, the three big wear points are; engine, clutch, main disk bearings. Everything else is pretty simple, and easy to fix. A new clutch for my machine is about $1500, the disk bearings can be simple if everything goes right (rarely so) and can be fairly inexpensive for parts (but I'd budget 2-3 days if not a mechanic). Engine is a engine, so no lectures on that.

Thanks for staying on board this ride Evo.

I've been a renter of similar DIY rental chippers (which this one is a slight step above and maybe attracted more professionals?) I pushed my rented units for everything I could get (like unbolting the feed control lock down that Home Depot installed on their machine), but don't think I ever did any damage. And would likely push one that I owned the same. I'm sure the abuse comes in when people feed metal and rocks and wear the disc - likely being why my Bandit repair tech wanted to see pics of the knife pockets. And maybe mostly to see if it looked like this machine actually had only 320 hours on it as claimed. At least rental yards tend to keep up w/ fluids and filters which is probably the biggest "non visible" wear that a machine can get. In any case, I've now learned that this "rental" machine was traded back in to Bandit (headquarters in Michigan) in 2015 and reconditioned (which was a small work order because it was in good shape, and did not include sand blasting and painting - so it does look like a 2003), But it got their stamp of approval as a good reconditioned machine w/ 282 hours on it in 2015 (Disc, engine, bearings, hydraulic feed system) - post rental life. From there a home builder put 40 more hours on it in the first month or so and it then sat idle (and yes, I know that is bad for an engine). I spoke w/ the contractor and he said he maintained it for whatever that's worth (not like lying was going to make the sale, its not his to sell anymore, but maybe there is ego/shame involved...) - likely it sat there for 4 years, but at the contractors yard, not the current seller's yard, where it has been for 4 months. (snow dust on ground in listing pics) This machine is a "direct drive" (through a belt) and does not have a clutch. The disc starts turning w/ the ignition - its small enough they could do that?

I don't know how to wheel and deal, and I'm sure the sellers are very experienced, so its an unmatched bout coming up next week. The salesman has already offered that he would talk to his manager and see about adjusting the price to accommodate some shipping. So, its already a set up for them to abuse me - I'm talking to the salesperson and there is an overriding authority - good guy/bad guy scenerio. I don't like it, but from what I've seen that's available right now in the chipper listings, I would pay the asked $8k rather than walk away from it, so they've kind of got me.

I can't quite decide if I should disclose that I've spoken w/ the previous owner. The seller would not tell me who they got it from, but I was able to get the name, location and the 2015 purchase price of $8250 out of Bandit's receptionist since they had gotten it back and reconditioned it. I looked up his number and called him. He said its an awesome machine and didn't slow down when he fed it like other machines that he'd used. He also has family connections in Bandit's proprietary engineering department and was guided that not only is it the best gas motor they ever put on a machine, but that it really is the best little chipper out there. And through his inside connections they supposedly picked him out a really well cared for machine... He also said the current seller is a respected family business and known for being honest, and he trusts them - buys his equipment, supplies etc from them. (And he even has a spare set of new knives that he's going to give me - take them to the seller's yard and leave them w/ the machine...) So, if I disclosed that I spoke w/ the seller, then I would be disclosing that he said how awesome it was and they are... (not so good for talking the price down). He also said he used it hard for about a month (some huge storm had come through Michigan and the tree guys were all backed up and he bought it to get access to the his real income - home repairs. Then it sat idle after he put his post storm 40 hours on it. So if I disclosed that I've spoken to him, I could also say that I know it has been sitting idle for 4 years, which is bad for a motor. (New motor from Bandit costing 2,560 - I checked it when considering upgrading a 27HP Bandit).

So, WWED? (What would Evo do)

 

[evo]

i'd talk them down.. How long has it been sitting in their yard? if they are selling it for 8k they likely paid 5-6K.. offer them 6,500-7,500 and see where it goes.. If it's been sitting in their lot for 4 years they would like to just move on and clear the space.
Beyond that, it sounds like a good machine for it's class. We are talking the 35 hp right?
I paid 6.5K for a 9" gravely with a 44hp. I really call it a 6" with a really big engine. It had 400 hours on the clock, and I did my homework. It was bought at a auction for 5k and was a salt lake city machine. The seller had this story about how they bought it, and never used it. I think they just bought it to flip it. Regardless, after I bought it I inspected the clutch and noticed a nut laying in the bottom of the housing.. Disassemble and take a look, it was from the brass yoke which engages and disengages. From there I found another broken bolt, basically to the pilot bearing which took welding a nut to it for extraction. Fast forward a few months to a year, and I noticed very slight lateral movement on the disk, almost non detectable. Then I noticed the collar on the main shaft slightly rotated on the main bearings.. I had to cut the bearings off with a torch, cut off disk, and Dremel. All the barrel shaped bearings rotated 90* and wore a grove in the middle between the races. Fixed that, 3 weeks for parts and 2 days labor.
Then another year or two goes by and the Tach stops working. The hour meter is built into the tach, and I learned how east it is to turn a machine with 400 hours into a machine with 0 hours.

I don't regret buying my machine, but I do wish for something bigger/newer. I'm in an interesting market and niche and rarely do large or medium removals (PNW standards). I love the machine because its light and good enough, I can push or pull it about anywhere with my mini can go. Using a bigger chipper in the 12-18" range is no comparison, but that requires taking trees apart as the main business plan. That's not my motive, and it's easy to get stuck in the biggering loop (read the lorax).

 

[evo]

I'd also let them know, you have the history on the machine. Make them an offer which allows them to make money on it, but also one that is telling them you'd walk if not accepted. I'd also not spend that kind of money if I can't put my hands and a few pieces of wood through the machine in person.

 

[Shelter's Edge]

i'd talk them down.. How long has it been sitting in their yard? if they are selling it for 8k they likely paid 5-6K.. offer them 6,500-7,500 and see where it goes.. If it's been sitting in their lot for 4 years they would like to just move on and clear the space.
Beyond that, it sounds like a good machine for it's class. We are talking the 35 hp right?
I paid 6.5K for a 9" gravely with a 44hp. I really call it a 6" with a really big engine. It had 400 hours on the clock, and I did my homework. It was bought at a auction for 5k and was a salt lake city machine. The seller had this story about how they bought it, and never used it. I think they just bought it to flip it. Regardless, after I bought it I inspected the clutch and noticed a nut laying in the bottom of the housing.. Disassemble and take a look, it was from the brass yoke which engages and disengages. From there I found another broken bolt, basically to the pilot bearing which took welding a nut to it for extraction. Fast forward a few months to a year, and I noticed very slight lateral movement on the disk, almost non detectable. Then I noticed the collar on the main shaft slightly rotated on the main bearings.. I had to cut the bearings off with a torch, cut off disk, and Dremel. All the barrel shaped bearings rotated 90* and wore a grove in the middle between the races. Fixed that, 3 weeks for parts and 2 days labor.
Then another year or two goes by and the Tach stops working. The hour meter is built into the tach, and I learned how east it is to turn a machine with 400 hours into a machine with 0 hours.

I don't regret buying my machine, but I do wish for something bigger/newer. I'm in an interesting market and niche and rarely do large or medium removals (PNW standards). I love the machine because its light and good enough, I can push or pull it about anywhere with my mini can go. Using a bigger chipper in the 12-18" range is no comparison, but that requires taking trees apart as the main business plan. That's not my motive, and it's easy to get stuck in the biggering loop (read the lorax).

That was a quick reply. Thanks for your thoughts Evo.

It is a 35HP Bandit 65.

I'm thinking (with some input from previous owner) that they got it for about 6K. They have not been sitting on it in their yard for 4 years. They've had it for 4 months, but with no action because they just started it for the first time in those 4 months. But it sat for almost 4 years in the previous owner's lot. I think I have a pretty good history on this machine. I don't think I'll have issues w/ the disc, bearings, etc, (Bandit had it fully checked out 40 machine hours ago.) and I don't intend to use it regularly - I'm a builder, not an arborist, so not a lot of upcoming added wear on those parts. If there is an issue with this machine I would guess that it would be about seals drying out from sitting and not running, which could mean new motor or rebuild. But it did start and did not smoke in the video they just shot. And I'll have the same issues from my own use of the machine - it will be sitting a lot. I definatley need to get a regular maintenance plan to include running all of my equipment that I'm not using - like the stump grinder that I've got that's been sitting for over 1 1/2 yrs (yikes!). I was thinking I wanted to ask for 7,500 out the door, taxes and any fees included in 7,500 total. I'm wondering if I'd be pushing it to ask for that to include shipping it to me. Regardless, now that I'm hearing that it might be $600 for shipping, I think it would be worth that to not drive 13-14 hrs, 850 miles each way, campsite fees, gas, my T100 is going strong, but it already has 470K miles on it... And I'd get to keep working on my project for those few days...

I asked them to video some 4-5" wood going through the chipper and they refused to take the time to do it, but the previous owner (again, he has no reason to pull anything over on me - it has moved on) says the auto feed does not even slow down. And I certainly hope to not put my hands through that machine. (literal interpretation of your other post) Am I really going to gain any real data if I drive 28 hrs - particularly with my limited chipper experience? I'm getting big green flags from Bandit & previous owner.

I'm thinking this machine seems perfect for me and what I'm doing. I can always stockpile larger non firewood grade material and rent one of the big daddy's for a day if I need to once I get the F450 on the road. Meanwhile, the bigger machines chip bigger stuff faster and enable arborists to get in and get out. I'm not an arborist, I'm a builder. I'm in an area of primarily hardwoods and cut most of the tree up into saw logs or firewood. And I'm on the south slope of a mountain - no flat space to stage materials and equipment. This machine also a gas motor, and I know diesels have more power. I actually want gas, not diesel - I was put in the emergency room almost 2 years ago now from diesel fumes from the track hoe I was operating. I now know I have to wear a respirator when I operate the track hoe - very uncomfortable on a hot day. Don't want to do that with a chipper, or a truck. The F450 I recently bought is gas, and it was tough to find because I wanted gas (and shortest possible turn radius for tight mtn sites, Std tran, Std cab, 4x4...).

Interesting you mention Lorax. What are you some sort of environmentalist dude? My mission at the moment is to develop my land into a version of a tiny house community w/ a healthy home twist. I recently moved onto the land in a tool shed - onsite security, and no rent so I can channel all of my resources into the project, but no income either while I focus on my own project, so can't pay helpers... The tag line with my business logo is "Heath Conscious & Environmentally Responsible Homes and Communities". At some point I'll want a bandsaw mill too, but that's down the road a bit. (Trees from the land turn into materials for the houses on the land).

I still know I suck at wheeling and dealing.

 

[southsoundtree]

Just to find a reliable machine that has been used normally, and not beat on, ready to go, for a fair price, is a score.

 

[porcupine]

Good morning gents,
My 2 cents would be negotiate hard and always be willing to walk away.
No demo of it chipping no deal.
On the topic of small chippers I bought a bc700xl back in 2014. I'm a small operation and
anything it can't chip is firewood. Vermeer stopped making the 600 I think the 700 is the smallest now. Still has a 25 hp gas engine. It's obviously not an intimidator but has no problem smashing up 5-6" logs. We sharpen it every few days with a dremel, and run full synthetic oil in the old girl.
Just for comparison, the vermeer was 22,000 vs 35,000 ish Canadian for a 75 Bandit. The Bandit is
prob a better machine but you pay for it.

 

[Shelter's Edge]

Just to find a reliable machine that has been used normally, and not beat on, ready to go, for a fair price, is a score.

Yes, Southsoundtree. I'm thinking this machine is a reliable machine. And from what I can tell, it will be worth the full asking price if that's what it takes to get it. I'm not someone who can posture, so its probably best for me to try to be straight forward, make an offer based on what I know, and not pretend to be able to play hard ball...

I started this adventure thinking I was looking for a Vermeer 6" and could even get by w/ the 25 HP unit if that's what it needed to be to stay at least close to my budget. - since I knew that machine and it was working for me, knowing it was a wimpy machine, but it would get me out of continuing to throw my money away on rent, and would change my process from having to stockpile so much material and have the chipper kick my 54y.o. butt on chipper day. Then I got enough input from the folks on this thread to steer me towards the Bandit 65 as a minimum entry point. (And I really am thinking from everything I have gathered on different brands and models that its the best model for what I'm trying to do.) The price point for the machine I found was way over my budget, and I had no idea if the machine was not going to need major work as soon as I got it home, and even no idea of what to look for if I were get my hands on the machine before purchase - felt like a really big gamble. Other, slightly newer Bandit 65 machines that are currently available are $1000's more - so, maybe this seller knew this machine had major problems. Now I think I've gotten enough history on the machine, the previous user, and seller to feel like this machine was taken care of and actually has the low hours on it that they are claiming, and I don't really care that it looks old because it is, just that it works well. (Provided the motor seals are not all dried out from sitting so much, but I wouldn't know that from inspecting it. )

 

[Shelter's Edge]

Good morning gents,
My 2 cents would be negotiate hard and always be willing to walk away.
No demo of it chipping no deal.
On the topic of small chippers I bought a bc700xl back in 2014. I'm a small operation and
anything it can't chip is firewood. Vermeer stopped making the 600 I think the 700 is the smallest now. Still has a 25 hp gas engine. It's obviously not an intimidator but has no problem smashing up 5-6" logs. We sharpen it every few days with a dremel, and run full synthetic oil in the old girl.
Just for comparison, the vermeer was 22,000 vs 35,000 ish Canadian for a 75 Bandit. The Bandit is
prob a better machine but you pay for it.

Hi Porcupine. Thanks for jumping into the conversation. Great to hear from other "small operations" like me. Interesting that you are able to chip 5-6" logs in the Vermeer 25HP machine. I've certainly not been able to come close to that with the Vermeer rentals I've rented (25 HP 625's). When I've stuck a 3 or 4" log in these machines the auto feed goes so slow that I feel like I could grind it up faster with a chainsaw, and spit the thing back out and go back to chipping material the machine can handle. I'll try to look into using a dremel to sharpen the knives - sounds easier than removing them. I'm sure that from what everyone here is saying that sharpness has a lot to do with effectiveness of the machine. Bandit has also told me about sharpness of the Anvil and making sure that the space between the anvil and knives are withing a certain range. Like you, I got the same feel that the Bandit was probably a better machine, but that I'd pay for it - and its exactly why there are so many more vermeers available - the rental yards tend to go for the less expensive machines, and they are by far the biggest source of used machines. Budget is definately a concern for me, but even bigger was the concern that I'd pay more for a better machine and would not get the better machine, just the paying more - i.e. get a machine that was used up. Certainly in this case, the Bandit is not 50% more $ than what I can find a Vermeer for, (although it is 16 yrs old), and with the step up to 35HP, I'd think that even for a small machine that its a significant step up in machine (50% increase in power). I wish I had negotiation skills, but I don't, and don't think I can fake it. I'll present what I know - I've spoken with the previous owner and the machine has been sitting for 4 years - and hope that they will come down on their price. And no, I don't have a demo of it chipping, but I've had a conversation with the previous owner who has said that when it was last used that it was awesome. I'm putting a lot of value on knowing that Bandit had it 40 machine hours ago and sold it as a fully reconditioned unit .

 

[porcupine]

Yeah the shear bar or anvil that the blades spin by is key. When it is a fresh square and adjusted correctly chipping is much more enjoyable. It gets pretty round with use. They say to change your bolts when you switch knives so the dremel gets the most out of each knife before changes.
Cut resistant gloves are a good idea here, or else Vermeer will extract a blood sacrifice.

In any case good luck and let us know how it goes.