No? Sure seems to be a lot of folks who did, guess no one told them...
Legends of real tree men
- Thread starter tomstrees
- Start date
“If we are the greatest nation the sun ever shone upon, it would seem to be mainly because we have been able to goad our wage-earners to this pitch of frenzy.”
― Upton Sinclair, The Jungle
― Upton Sinclair, The Jungle
treebilly
Branched out member
- Location
- N. Lawrence
Levi, if this country upsets you so much, why don’t you move back to the homeland? While we’ve been cool on many other things and I really consider you a “good guy”, claiming shit like this can really piss people off. My family came from Irish and German immigrants. I really don’t know what they did but to tell me they were wrong for providing for their families to ultimately produce me, and in turn producing three of the best human beings on this planet can be somewhat agitating.
To follow this logic train I believe:
1. Stupid for coming here in the first place.
2. Intention was so suppress indigenous peoples if not murder them.
3. Stupid for seeking employment.
4. Should have raised an armed uprising upon getting off the boat to take down all the Robber Barons and everyone else that owned a business and employed people.
5. Should have started communal farms and businesses to hold hands and sing happy ditties while destroying capitalism and American democracy. Redistribute all wealth and property shortly thereafter.
1. Stupid for coming here in the first place.
2. Intention was so suppress indigenous peoples if not murder them.
3. Stupid for seeking employment.
4. Should have raised an armed uprising upon getting off the boat to take down all the Robber Barons and everyone else that owned a business and employed people.
5. Should have started communal farms and businesses to hold hands and sing happy ditties while destroying capitalism and American democracy. Redistribute all wealth and property shortly thereafter.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Try separating emigrants intentions and the consequences of immigration. Two inter related issues
The stage was set for robber barons to take advantage of world wide population relocation
Labor organizing was a reaction to the workplace abuse by robber barons.
Currently he robber barons are what we call ‘The 1%’
Few of us are in a much better place than our immigrant ancestors.
The stage was set for robber barons to take advantage of world wide population relocation
Labor organizing was a reaction to the workplace abuse by robber barons.
Currently he robber barons are what we call ‘The 1%’
Few of us are in a much better place than our immigrant ancestors.
Claiming shit like what? I am only pointing out facts and adding some opinion.
I am also descended from european immigrants! Some German and Irish too as a matter of fact. I'm not saying people were wrong for providing for their families, it's human instinct. I'm saying that making out people in forced labor to be some kind of hero is pretty perverse, in my opinion. It really was no noble deed, just more of a desperate ugly nasty fight for survival. (in my opinion)
Not enough beer and football this weekend? or too much perhaps? Gotta get back on the crew tomorrow.
treebilly
Branched out member
- Location
- N. Lawrence
So you’re saying I shouldn’t look up to my grandfather for doing 40 years in with the postal service? Worked till he couldn’t walk his route anymore? Or my other grandfather who adopted my dad that worked till he died from cancer when I was a toddler? I never really even knew him. What I kno is they both provided a good life for their families. With out either I wouldn’t be here to do the best I can for mine. Sucks that they did it for the rockefellers or who ever but they did it. Are you telling me I should be against immigration? I can go to work tomorrow and while on the job can make a one block perimeter and take out at least a half dozen illegals. I prefer not to do that. The cost of ammo will eventually catch up to me.
What I’m trying to say Levi is yeah, some fucked up shit went on. Most of the guys that did it weren’t involved. They were just trying to make a living. The blame lies with the people that really made the money. The guys that did it were heroes. They just collected a meager paycheck though. The ones that profited made the real money. Are you gonna blame Gerry B for all the redwoods being cut? That was his job and from it we’ve all learned a lot.
What I’m trying to say Levi is yeah, some fucked up shit went on. Most of the guys that did it weren’t involved. They were just trying to make a living. The blame lies with the people that really made the money. The guys that did it were heroes. They just collected a meager paycheck though. The ones that profited made the real money. Are you gonna blame Gerry B for all the redwoods being cut? That was his job and from it we’ve all learned a lot.
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Rich, no, I am not telling you any of those things. If you want to call those people
heroes, well that is where we diverge.
If following instinct makes someone heroic, I missed that.
I prefer to see the brutal labor undertaken by immigrants in the usa since it's birth in a more honest light. Like, it was/is a desperate and ugly struggle for survival and ask anyone in the logging/mining etc camp if they'd like to get the hell out?
heroes, well that is where we diverge.
If following instinct makes someone heroic, I missed that.
I prefer to see the brutal labor undertaken by immigrants in the usa since it's birth in a more honest light. Like, it was/is a desperate and ugly struggle for survival and ask anyone in the logging/mining etc camp if they'd like to get the hell out?
SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
I do have to say that the trait I admire the most about men who are 40+ years older than me is their almost universal ability to just do what needs to be done without any whining or fussing about fairness or other people's priorities.
Judging someone else for making good business decisions or just taking lucky bets is pretty fucked up.
Fat girls blame genetics for their shortcomings. Lazy and dumb people blame luck or a corrupt system for their mediocrity.
Smart people know that their destinies are there for the choosing. If I chose to pursue money and power with my time and energy, I am sure I would have some.
It's not our system. People are not all worth the same. There is a division of wealth in every system. There should be. I am in the top 1% of wage earners in the world. Most of us frequenting this forum are. Everything is so whiny.
Those old dudes broke their bodies because it was what they should do, and they paved the way for us to be the spoiled shits that we are.
Judging someone else for making good business decisions or just taking lucky bets is pretty fucked up.
Fat girls blame genetics for their shortcomings. Lazy and dumb people blame luck or a corrupt system for their mediocrity.
Smart people know that their destinies are there for the choosing. If I chose to pursue money and power with my time and energy, I am sure I would have some.
It's not our system. People are not all worth the same. There is a division of wealth in every system. There should be. I am in the top 1% of wage earners in the world. Most of us frequenting this forum are. Everything is so whiny.
Those old dudes broke their bodies because it was what they should do, and they paved the way for us to be the spoiled shits that we are.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Witty
Let’s keep this discussion based in the US not internationally since we are talking about US immigration
In order to be in the 1% group in 2013 you would need an income about $389,000. That number might be different for 2017. None of the people I’ve gotten to know on TreeBuzz.com over the years have had an income close to that. If you do, congrats. You’ve had more success than most anyone in arbor culture
Let’s keep this discussion based in the US not internationally since we are talking about US immigration
In order to be in the 1% group in 2013 you would need an income about $389,000. That number might be different for 2017. None of the people I’ve gotten to know on TreeBuzz.com over the years have had an income close to that. If you do, congrats. You’ve had more success than most anyone in arbor culture
https://wallethacks.com/average-median-income-in-america/
Amazing to read that only half of the people earn more then 30 k per year.
Amazing to read that only half of the people earn more then 30 k per year.
Stunning and scary #'s.
SomethingWitty
Arkansawyer
- Location
- LR
We were talking about the men who were big enough badasses to inspire the creation of Paul Bunyan.
It was quickly decided that we should not be impressed by feats of strength or endurance because one of the many reasons that these men worked so hard and cleverly was bad. Fucking emotional appeals and politics everywhere. You can't erase history. I was just saying that drawing the short stick here is hardly worth crying over. Even our damn homeless people have cell phones, shoes, and food for free.
Tom, the numbers I read put the top 1 percent of wage earners being 30k-ish and up. That 380k looks more like a net worth top 1%. I guess my cheesy source could be wrong. Even if I am more like the top 5%, the point is the same.
Crying because they did their jobs doesn't mean we shouldn't feel shame for being so much less like men than they were, or that we shouldn't feel pride for carrying the best trade in the world into the future.
It has been my experience that being 30 years old in America (in a pretty poor state) and not making 30k a year is as simple as being lame, stupid, or not trying.
It was quickly decided that we should not be impressed by feats of strength or endurance because one of the many reasons that these men worked so hard and cleverly was bad. Fucking emotional appeals and politics everywhere. You can't erase history. I was just saying that drawing the short stick here is hardly worth crying over. Even our damn homeless people have cell phones, shoes, and food for free.
Tom, the numbers I read put the top 1 percent of wage earners being 30k-ish and up. That 380k looks more like a net worth top 1%. I guess my cheesy source could be wrong. Even if I am more like the top 5%, the point is the same.
Crying because they did their jobs doesn't mean we shouldn't feel shame for being so much less like men than they were, or that we shouldn't feel pride for carrying the best trade in the world into the future.
It has been my experience that being 30 years old in America (in a pretty poor state) and not making 30k a year is as simple as being lame, stupid, or not trying.
yeah, and I though I was broke!
