Large Linden in need of Bracing

flyingsquirrel25

flyingsquirrel25

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
South East, PA
I looked at a tree two weeks ago that I sugested needed a bunch of bracing. The tree owner was very receptive of the plan and wants to save her tree at almost any cost. I suggested (2) 7/8" bolts that span 10 ft across just above the crotch. Then 2 rows of (3) bolts and 4 and 8 ft below the first row. Then finally another row of (2) another 4 feet below the last row. Oh I forgot to mention the fork has a split that goes all the way to the ground on one side, but the tree is still standing after several strong summer storms. My question is when you guys drill large holes for bracing, what are you using for a power unit? Gas drill? Corded? I tested a stihl drill and it wont do it. My corded drill will do it but I dont know if it will make it through the whole job without burning up. Any suggestions would be great. I will be taking pictures tonight when Im out putting cables up, and will try to get them up by tomorrow. Thanks in advance
 
A 3/4 electric rental drill is quite capable of breaking your bones and spinning you in a circle, if you're not very careful.

You do intend to supplement the rodding with upper cables right?

Any pics?

jomoco
 
As you already know, Linden is soft and when you drill it, it will clog the hole very quickly. I think a good engine drill should work, but you will have to be very careful to clean out the hole and drill bit frequently or it will bind badly. What part of PA are you in? I am really missing home right now. Would give just about anything for a Canadian front to get this far south!
 
Get a Whole Hog by Milwaukee. You'll need a power source but that drill will go through anything. It won't break you either because it has a clutch. You'll save hours and hours compared to the gas POS.
 
Also, I think you may be recommending too many bolts... If you are going to use that many in series, stagger them left-to-right a bit to avoid creating a split or worse, a future decay column.

-Tom
 
Wow 10 bolts (threaded rods) seems excessive (not too mention pretty hard on the body to install). I wonder if you should cut back on the number, install a cable or two (I believe that it is commonly acknowledged that all bracing should be coincident with cabling) and do a crown reduction/thinning.

I would be quite worried about spreading decay pockects and would be much happier if at least one (4 tonne) cable is installed.
 
Thanks for all the input. I just finished getting two cables installed in the tree. I agree cables are a must for this tree (there were 2 old broken cables).
Tom, American Arborist welded me up (2) 15/16" drill bits, one 4 footer to get the holes strait and a 10 to finish them off. These bits might find themselves on Treebay when Im done, if anyone is interested.
I suggested 10 bolts based off of my interpretation of the BMP. When I was first bidding the job I second guessed myself too.
BMP quote
"In very large trees, greater than 40 inches diameter, that have a single crotch and a split below the crotch, a horizontally parallel system should be used. This includes one or more rods above the crotch and sets of horizontally parallel rods below the crotch. Sets may consist of two or more rods spaced at least 12 inches apart, horizontally. If multiple rows of rods are used, vertical spacing should be atleast 12 inches."

My vertical spacing is going to be 4 Ft and am probably going to stick with 12 - 16" horizontal spacing. I am going to try to off set the rows the best I can.
The attached picture is the beast. the crotch in about 18.5 feet up, 9 feet across at the crotch (just under 10 above). With 2 load straps I got 4" or so of closure.
 

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I think you'll need a 5/8ths pilot drill to establish your holes mate.

I know that I couldn't manhandle a 3/4 electric drill through 6 feet of oak with a one inch bit, much less ten feet!

You'll find it almost impossible to deal with 6 foot long bits from a climber's perspective in practical reality when 18 feet off the ground. You'll need a bucket, scaffolding or something.

Looks like a very challenging tree to cable and rod to me.

Please tell me you're not using any of that synthetic Cobra nonsense.

jomoco
 
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I think you'll need a 5/8ths pilot drill to establish your holes mate.

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My only problem is if I drill a pilot the ships auger wont work as it is intended. I was very suprized that my cordless drill drilled the cabling holes (all four) without any problem, without changing batteries. So Im hoping the soft wood helps.

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I know that I couldn't manhandle a 3/4 electric drill through 6 feet of oak with a one inch bit, much less ten feet!

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The good thing is the only 10' drilling I need to do has a 1.5' space between the stems. Thats one of the reasons I decided 4' vertical spacing was going to work, it will drop the cross section for drilling quicker.

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You'll find it almost impossible to deal with 6 foot long bits from a climber's perspective in practical reality when 18 feet off the ground. You'll need a bucket, scaffolding or something.

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You are absolutely correct. When I first looked at it I was hoping to get a track lift (due to fenced in yard). But then I remembered one of my buds from the firehouse has scaffolding. I picked up three sections last night. I am going to have my rope attached to me working up there just as a back up.

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Looks like a very challenging tree to cable and rod to me.
Please tell me you're not using any of that synthetic Cobra nonsense.
jomoco

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Very Challenging. The cables took me much longer than I would have ever thought. Just climbing the tree was tough because of the crack. I didnt want to set a line high until I got he straps in. So I worked up the tree and installed straps as I went.
No cobra on this one.
grin.gif
3/8 EHS cable with 5/8 hardware. The 8t thread is about a different tree (this Sundays' project)
 
And let the fun begin.

I set the staging up last night and wanted to get the bit into the tree (to see how the job was going to go).

The first 4ft of hole was difficult. the rest was cake. The bit dropped into a hollow and off set the holes slightly and caused an issue getting the threaded rod in but its there. 1 night 1 brace :(. Hope the rest go better. Learned a ton though.
 

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stihl gas powered drill would have been fine, you just have to be smart and know how to use any drill correctly instead of just trying to muscle through the tree.

on a soft linden with a new bit, I'd be pulling back on the drill just as soon as it got started, it would still pull the bit in, then as soon as chips stoped coming out the hole, pull back to clean out the hole, if you waited to long and can't pull out, then stop, go in reverse, then start again pulling out the chips.

this would need done with any drill or else you'll just send that auger bit into the tree like a large screw and you'll be screwed.

Good job on taking on that job.

A word on caution on your cabling though, you said 5/8" hardware, I bet that means 5/8" J-lags.... Wooops. I use 5/8" j-lags the most too, but I would never put them into a Linden, way too soft. Through bolting anchors only on Linden.

Great job otherwise!

Hey, job isn't likely going to be absolutely perfect on the first huge tree cabling and bracing, but I'm sure it will work anyway.
 
Agreed nice shots Squirrel, I am not knowledgeable on bracing but it seemed like a fine job. Kudos to you for trying to save that big tree. Lindens are beautiful fer sure.
 
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stihl gas powered drill would have been fine, you just have to be smart and know how to use any drill correctly instead of just trying to muscle through the tree.

on a soft linden with a new bit, I'd be pulling back on the drill just as soon as it got started, it would still pull the bit in, then as soon as chips stoped coming out the hole, pull back to clean out the hole, if you waited to long and can't pull out, then stop, go in reverse, then start again pulling out the chips.

this would need done with any drill or else you'll just send that auger bit into the tree like a large screw and you'll be screwed.

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I compaired the stihl drill to the electric in a smaller piece of tulip poplar the day before beginnig and the difference was huge. I couldnt believe how gutless the gas drill was. Thats why I was asking cause I was worried my electric wouldnt make it through the project. So far it made one hole, headed back out tonight to drill somemore.


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A word on caution on your cabling though, you said 5/8" hardware, I bet that means 5/8" J-lags.... Wooops. I use 5/8" j-lags the most too, but I would never put them into a Linden, way too soft. Through bolting anchors only on Linden.

Great job otherwise!

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Thanks for the vote of confidence
grin.gif
. I do have more sence then using J-lags... PERIOD. If it falls into J-lag specs it gets cobra, otherwise all I use is through bolt hardware.

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Hey, job isn't likely going to be absolutely perfect on the first huge tree cabling and bracing, but I'm sure it will work anyway.

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Yea Im finding that out. The first bolt was extremely difficult and didnt line up perfect. Hoping the rest go better or Ill be workin for minimum wage to get it done.
 
Looking forward to seeing your finished project.
Hope it goes smoother for ya. Hard work, get lots of pics. Looks like a nice tree squirrel, Great job man
 
Good Luck with the rest of it. Sounds like a real nightmare. Sounds like you are doing things right. J lags are for 20 footers. don't like them personally. Is the tree getting pruned as well?
 
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Looking forward to seeing your finished project.
Hope it goes smoother for ya. Hard work, get lots of pics. Looks like a nice tree squirrel, Great job man

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Thanks, was out friday afternoon and found that the first hole was the biggest problem. It took 3.5 hours to get that one bolt in (not tightened up and cut off). On friday afternoon I was there for 3 hours and installed another 4 bolts and finished all 5 off. It is going much nicer. Hoping to be out this afternoon to finish it up. But it will depend on how this mornings work goes (and if the weather holds).

Thanks Rickytree. Unfortunately the owner decided that the most important part was to get the old tree stitched back together and then we will talk about pruning in the winter or next year. I gave her a bid of just under 5k for the project and she only wanted to spend half. So the pruning, lightning protection update and 2 additional cables were left out of the bid. She was kinda upset that it was going to cost sooo much until I showed her how expensive the hardware is.

Thanks guys hope to have finished photos up in the next couple days.
 
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