Knotless “Splice”

Rooted.Tree.Solutions

Rooted.Tree.Solutions

Branched out member
Location
Elkhart, IN
So, I wanted to get some feedback on a device I’ve been using. A local climber in my area makes these, I’m not sure what they’re called and I don’t think they’re on the market anywhere. It’s a pretty simple piece of aluminum with 3 holes for your rope and 1 hole for a carabiner. This device gives you an attachment point at the end of your rope without having to tie a knot or use a splice. I have loved using this tool for climbing. It’s way faster than a knot and we all know that a splice can still sometimes get caught in a crotch. It’s supur fast to set up and take off. Curious what you guys think. 0A08F07B-673B-4508-8C68-98BE2C820A4B.webp9D8D9974-43F8-466E-993B-E99789BD327A.webp
 
It reminds me a lot of those little plastic pieces you use to tighten tent rian flys with these here at walmart.

I think it looks awesome, though I'd be a little leary climbing on it without some basic testing first. Also gives me pause as the "borders" for lack of a better term look a bit thin to me. Look at the cmi pulleys and how much of a border they have where the carabiner clips in (i know thats thinner material, but even still)

The knot looks a lot like the one used by shizll and should be more than sufficiently secure. Maybe for climbing a stopper knot would be appropriate as a just in case while trying it out?

How long have you been playing with it? and what are you impressions?

Lastly if you've got a couple that you'd be willing to part with, they look like they would fit into an envelop and ship really easily. I don't climb much anymore (bucket baby) but i'd be willing to give them a test with some light rigging
 
Looks ingenious! I will make a couple right after Xmas and try them out. I suppose in critical situations, you could add a stopper knot on the tail of the rope, but it doesn't look like this thing would be prone to slip very easily.
 
It's called a rope termination plate, and there are literally dozens of them on the market, from rigging versions to rope access lifeline versions. They don't do the rope any favors with the harsh bend radius, but probably no worse than a lot of knots being used.

HOLD-ME Termination Plate

Send a few feet of rope and one of them to Richard to break test (the one you pictured, not the one I linked). It should be a real eye opener. I'm going to predict that the rope breaks at about half its rated strength.
 
JeffGu said:
. . . They don't do the rope any favors with the harsh bend radius, but probably no worse than a lot of knots being used. . .
Click to expand...
If it were thicker, from say 1/2 inch aluminium, with larger radius on the edges of the holes, it might be easier on the rope. Might slip a bit easier then, too? But maybe not. I will make one like that and test it. And a break test from Richard would be great.
 
Two things-

First, what is the advantage of this concept? How does it streamline my work?

Second, would DMM’s smallest rigging plate do this?
 
Yeah, thicker and rounder is better...

Lots of the rigging plates can quickly attach to things and be used in configurations this way, and some of them show examples in their user manual / literature.

The termination plates are a way to terminate the end of ropes without splices, without using knots... and if they're thick enough (3/8" or greater) with everything rounded over nicely, they're stronger than a knot. I have one that I use on a 1/2" kernmantle that isn't spliced, that I sometimes use as a backup descent line with an ISC D5 on sketchy trees or other odd things I sometimes climb. I don't think I'd want to shock load the line, as I really don't know how they perform under heavy shock loading. I've never used one for rigging.
 
It's really a knot with added friction... like most of the stuff we're used to dealing with. Mine is a five-hole device like the one I linked. The rope weaves through three of the holes before the "knot" so that the friction is very high against pulling it out, but just low enough to keep the "knot" clamping the rope in place.

Needless to say, the first time I used it, I stayed under five feet off the ground and bounced around on it quite a bit before I worked up enough nerve to actually ascend on it. When you get to the TIP and see that it looks exactly like it did on the ground, the heebie-jeebies go away. I still treat it like a knot... tie, dress, look it over good, etc. because I do think everything needs to be snugged down before you weight it.

Mine is also made from 1/2" T6 aluminum and nicely rounded over. Some of them just have beveled edges, and creep me out.
 
Burrapeg said:
If it were thicker, from say 1/2 inch aluminium, with larger radius on the edges of the holes, it might be easier on the rope. Might slip a bit easier then, too? But maybe not. I will make one like that and test it. And a break test from Richard would be great.
Click to expand...
Interesting but I don't like the edges on it... they give me cause for pause as I've broken many products bending over sharp edges etc.. as a matter of fact, i just had it happen to me earlier tonight..

Like others have said.. if the plate was wider.. id be a little more comfortable.. but even more so, I'd want a chamfered edge on it instead of a squared sharp 90. If enough weight is on it, the two edges of the plate will act no different than a knife.
Burrapeg said:
View attachment 56257
Click to expand...
Wow.. I've never actually realized how small those are.. your hand gives a good reference.
 
Jimmycrackcorn said:
Interesting but I don't like the edges on it... they give me cause for pause as I've broken many products bending over sharp edges etc.. as a matter of fact, i just had it happen to me earlier tonight..

Like others have said.. if the plate was wider.. id be a little more comfortable.. but even more so, I'd want a chamfered edge on it instead of a squared sharp 90. If enough weight is on it, the two edges of the plate will act no different than a knife.Wow.. I've never actually realized how small those are.. your hand gives a good reference.
Click to expand...
They are small enough to be useful. I love the little orange ones.
I used one in a shizll sling adjuster setup once. They work well.
 
Knotless?? The rope is tied to the anchor plate - with a weird sort of a ...knot, then a biner is clipped to the plate? Adding a link or new component doesn't reduce risk. Why not just tie the rope to the carabiner with an approved knot?
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Once again...the value of reading EVERY entry on Storrick’s site

Look at the devices in the upper left on this panel:
http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Glance/GlancePages/2007/Glance2007_28.html
Click to expand...

Tom, thanks a lot for posting this link. I'm not sure how, but I think this might be the first time in all of my years of reading on the arb forums that I've ever seen someone mention this web site. It contains the most amazing collection of devices I have ever seen. Incredibly well organized, and over 1,300 devices on display. And these collections are just a sub-part of this man's main web site.

I'm going to post a link here to his devices page, which contains links for all of his previous years of displays. The 2009 year appears to be his largest assemblage of devices. No changes have been made to this web site since about February of 2018, so I hope the gentleman is still alive and kicking. It might be a smart idea to download all of the images into a file folder on one's computer, just to insure against the loss of the information if the web site ceases to exist. If I were him, I would hope that other people would do that in order to guarantee the continued existence of the information.

Here is the link:

http://storrick.cnc.net/VerticalDevicesPage/Glance2009.html

http://storrick.cnc.net./VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml

I absolutely love this quote from the page of the second link I posted above.

"Natural selection works, and it's forever."

Thanks again, Tom! I think I'll have to spend a bunch of time looking closely at all of the amazing photos of his collection.

Tim
 
"Knots shall not be used for load bearing end terminations"
- ANSI Z-359.1 Section 3.2.7.2.2 - from the Hold Me lifeline anchor page - tnx Jeffgu

So I quickly joined the ASSP so I could download my free copy of this standard, Looks like it's been updated in 2016 and wow is it almost useless - I really love our Z after reading that one.

I strongly disagree with the "no knots" conspiracy theorists. Men have been tieing knots in ropes for thousands of years and we have perfected the practice, who are these guys all of a sudden telling me it's somehow unsafe? Yes a knot will reduce the strength of a rope due to sharp bends and contact friction - one of the reason our ropes are so overbuilt.
 
rope-a-dope said:
We are climbing in the age of saddle bling.
Click to expand...

Chyeah we were are! Screw saddles bling.. I'm putting 20's on my chipper..

That & insta pro arborists! I'm amazed at all the pros on there.. there so fast, proficient & professional, their equipment never even gets a chance to get dirty.. it's all shiny & new.. all the time! They must really take care of their gear!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom