Issues with my 16 strand Class I splice. Locking brummel with a long bury?

oldoakman

Well-Known Member
Location
Alorgia
Very nice. I always like to admire my splices afterward seeing as how much work and frustration happens while trying to complete them.
 

dspacio

Active Member
Location
Narragansett Bay
looks sweet! I had to ditch my last 16 strand eye, I got one ring on there fine, but the next crossover just went nutty. (making a friction saver). I ended up tying the other ring on a prussik, and now it's "adjustable" with a stopper knot where I hoped the eye would be.
Kind of intimidated to try another 16 strand eye so this is good encouragement. Thanks~~
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
A technique to prevent snagging the core is to bunch the cover as much as possible, then bend the rope slightly downward. Riding the tip of the fid or wire on the bumps of the cover strands helps keep it between the core and cover.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
I'm putting a tight eye on the other end of my lanyard and seem to have caught some core fibers. This morning I'll pull the cover back out and try again. I was trying to do what you said above but just wasn't careful enough when the wire fid was close to coming out where the core strands exit. I got the reduced cover pulled back about halfway through the crossover and it's just not going any farther.
 

dspacio

Active Member
Location
Narragansett Bay
I'm putting a tight eye on the other end of my lanyard and seem to have caught some core fibers. This morning I'll pull the cover back out and try again. I was trying to do what you said above but just wasn't careful enough when the wire fid was close to coming out where the core strands exit. I got the reduced cover pulled back about halfway through the crossover and it's just not going any farther.
That's what happened to me last time. The first 3 eyes I did came out alright, after a lot of muscling, but the last one just came to a total halt. It sat on my bench for way too long getting a millimeter at a time, until a well-deserved abandonment.

sometimes pulling on the core tails a few times while passing that initial meeting, can help sort things out.

I am looking forward to trying again though. I am also thinking the Arbormaster would be a good lanyard rope. my main lanyard is XTC that's very similar 1/2" 16 strand, and it's been great.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Samson’s core is straighter and more relaxed than the xtc, much easier to deal with, probably less prone to snagging.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
I got the tight eye done. It looks like everybody else's tight eye splice. I guess that means it worked. Work was the name for that one. I screwed up the process a bit but still got it done. For the crossover bury I was pulling on the wrong parts. I pulled on the wire fid and the tight eye instead of the core tail. It took me most of an hour to pull and milk it through. Duh. Then I rewatched the video after I had it done. Next time! I guess that's called learning the hard way.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
Both splices. The white whipping/lockstitch is waxed thread that I wasn't real fond of. Not very strong. I used Marlow whipping twine for the tight eye. It was a little thin but worked better than the waxed stuff.
 

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dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
It sounds like the wire used in wire fids might be music wire. It might be 17 or 18 gauge wire. Pretty inexpensive stuff, about $7 for 100-140 feet. I just ordered both sizes to see how it compares to what I have. If it seems similar, I'll make myself a fid long enough to do the 33 inch bury in one pull. As long as I'm laid up for a few more weeks it gives me something to do.
I'm now questioning the gauge size I mentioned. What I thought was 18 gauge is actually .051 inches (1.295 mm). A gauge guide that came with my wire says that's a 23 gauge wire size. What I thought was 17 gauge wire is actually .063 inches (1.600 mm) which the guide says is 26 gauge wire. So call me confused about wire sizes that talk about gauge. I thought it was like shotguns and house wire--the bigger the number the smaller the size. The two wire sizes I received were .051 inches and .063 inches. The .051 inch size most closely matches the "store bought" wire fid I have.

When I made my long wire fid, I used the .051 inch wire but didn't bother with a handle. I haven't used it yet, but don't think it will need a handle. One of the wires on the fid I bought came off the handle during use. I then just clamped the two wires in a woodworking vise, and that held them just fine no matter how hard I pulled. With that experience, I don't think I'll bother trying to fashion a handle for it. Maybe just bend the ends of the wire and wrap some tape around it so there aren't two loose pieces of stiff wire flopping around trying to poke me in the eye!
 

dspacio

Active Member
Location
Narragansett Bay
I got the tight eye done. It looks like everybody else's tight eye splice. I guess that means it worked. Work was the name for that one. I screwed up the process a bit but still got it done. For the crossover bury I was pulling on the wrong parts. I pulled on the wire fid and the tight eye instead of the core tail. It took me most of an hour to pull and milk it through. Duh. Then I rewatched the video after I had it done. Next time! I guess that's called learning the hard way.
I am about 4/5 of the way through my crossover, decided to stop a few moments after noticing a decent blood blister forming on my finger... too much milking!! it's going well considering.. will give it the final push in a day or two.
I should watch that video again too. I am just following the Samson manual.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Next time add an additional foot to the bury. Reduce each of the six remaining strands of this foot by half, which will pass through the crossover easier. Once it is through it is easier to grab the tail to pull the larger diameter tail through, this is from Nick many years ago.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
I got some cheap half inch 16 strand to practice on. Frank Winne & Son brand, made in Vietnam. The quality seems pretty good. It's polyester over nylon.

I left the core strands full length to make it easy to tie to a vice handle. I also used my homemade wire fid and ran the fid from Mark D to Mark B in one shot. To get the fid through easily, I pulled the core strands to bunch up the cover all the way to the knot, then tied a slip knot in the core strands to keep the cover bunched. That made getting the fid through without catching strands super easy.

"A technique to prevent snagging the core is to bunch the cover as much as possible, then bend the rope slightly downward. Riding the tip of the fid or wire on the bumps of the cover strands helps keep it between the core and cover."
Thanks Brocky!

Before trying to pull the cover back through, I made sure the core strands pulled back and forth easily past the fid. They did, and so did the cover tail. Wow. Tying the core strands to a cleat and pulling through in one shot took almost no effort. I pulled on the wires bare handed and didn't need any kind of handle.

I don't know if the splice was easy because of the long fid, better technique, Brocky's suggestion, or the difference in the two brands of rope. I'm almost tempted to cut off one of my hard-earned splices in the Arbormaster Blue Streak and redo it just to see if it's the difference in the ropes. I've still got time on my hands, and no blisters on them!
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
Next time add an additional foot to the bury. Reduce each of the six remaining strands of this foot by half, which will pass through the crossover easier. Once it is through it is easier to grab the tail to pull the larger diameter tail through, this is from Nick many years ago.
Aka SUPER taper... Its now my go to for all splices and works a treat
 

dspacio

Active Member
Location
Narragansett Bay
Next time add an additional foot to the bury. Reduce each of the six remaining strands of this foot by half, which will pass through the crossover easier. Once it is through it is easier to grab the tail to pull the larger diameter tail through, this is from Nick many years ago.
to make sure I am hearing correct, are you saying to cut half of the fibers out from each strand itself? I considered doing this.. but it felt kinda excessive (or the opposite.. what I have stuck in the crossover is excess. )
I like the sound of that. I did try a sort of extra taper on the last 5 inches of the cover, and got it through, but it didn't properly pull all the strands through, there was bunching, so I pulled it back to straighten it all out.
I only have about an inch of crossover to go, but you all know how far an inch of crossover can be!!

@dmonn I like your discoveries on that technique! I will be referring back here for next time. Thanks everyone!
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Yes, reduce the strands not remove whole ones, that way all the strands get pulled, it isn’t lopsided making it harder to pull through.
If your bury was moving and then stops, it probably is a snagged strand.
 

dspacio

Active Member
Location
Narragansett Bay
Yes, reduce the strands not remove whole ones, that way all the strands get pulled, it isn’t lopsided making it harder to pull through.
If your bury was moving and then stops, it probably is a snagged strand.
Thanks. I wonder if it's worth backing up and starting again. It has shocked me how differently the splice goes with seemingly slight changes.
Appreciate the insights!
 

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