Issues with my 16 strand Class I splice. Locking brummel with a long bury?

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
I'm getting pretty frustrated trying to do my first eye splice using 16 strand rope. I want to splice a snap on one end for a work positioning lanyard. I'm using 1/2 inch Arbormaster Blue Streak. I have a 16.5 inch wire fid and a large Brion Toss splicing wand with a 16.5 inch barrel. Neither one is long enough to go from Point D to Point B to pull the cover back through. On a stretched out (original marking) length that distance is 33 inches (22 hollow and 11 overlap). When you get it bunched up a bit to work the fid/wand through, it's still about 24 inches. I've tried doing it in two shorter pulls but that was a mess. I had a horrible time trying to get the fid or wand to come out of the same hole in the sheath without snagging some strands. I cut that off and tried again.

I then tried pulling some cord through doing two pulls, and then tying it to the end of the rope to pull back through the hollow section and overlap. When I did that I apparently hooked a cover strand along the way and didn't realize it. Now it's time to abandon that attempt. Ugh!

When trying to work the Brion Toss wand through the portion of the rope that still contained the core (overlap) it was really tight. I may keep trying, but I'm looking for suggestions. One thought I had was that, since the full strength of the rope is in the sheath, once the core is pulled out you have a hollow braid. At that point is there a problem just doing a double locking brummel with a tapered bury? Otherwise I may just tie the snap on with a f-in knot!
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
I’ve done a couple with locked brummels, takes a bit of work to open up the strands, and the crossover still has to be done, but haven’t had any pull tested. I’ve been extracting the core where the cover will end and then reinsert the core in a tapered manner.
3D3E7E7E-943C-4E7A-A68D-1DD5CC482E41.jpeg
 

oldoakman

Well-Known Member
Location
Alorgia
yeah, that 11 inch crossover buy is a bitch but doable. If you watch sevceral of the youtube videos of guys doing 16 strand splices, and watch very closely, they do some quick little moves that they don't talk about that makes it easier.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
I can't seem to get more than about 3 inches of my Brion Toss splicing wand through the crossover area. I guess that section is where I don't really have a choice but to use a wire fid. My biggest issue seems to be that the wire fid is too short to go the entire pull-back length in one shot. Anybody know what kind of wire is best to use for a DIY wire fid? The one I have is a rope logic version from TreeStuff. It looks like it would be pretty easy to just replace the wire with longer wire of the same type.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
I'm also a little concerned about the tight bend radius I'd get from splicing directly to the aluminum snap. With 16 strand it seems like you can get a tighter bend because you don't have the core in the eye. Does that make it safer? (less stress differential on the fibers between the inside and outside of the bend). Do I need to add a thimble? Plastic or steel? Can you get an aluminum thimble?
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
To get the most strength from the eye, its length should be 3x the diameter of the snap, but in real life a lanyard shouldn’t see that much force, so a tight eye is possible. I think you’re right about the benefit of the flattening of the rope around the snap.

I don’t use thimbles much, I don’t like the carabiner or snap floppy around, and the rope doesn’t need to be protected from wearing out, so probably just a personal preference thing.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
It sounds like the wire used in wire fids might be music wire. It might be 17 or 18 gauge wire. Pretty inexpensive stuff, about $7 for 100-140 feet. I just ordered both sizes to see how it compares to what I have. If it seems similar, I'll make myself a fid long enough to do the 33 inch bury in one pull. As long as I'm laid up for a few more weeks it gives me something to do.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
I did a practice splice just using the hollow cover from one of my abandoned attempts. I did locking brummels and a short tapered bury. The bury had about an inch of the full cover plus about 2.5 inches of taper. It seems solid. I might check to see if Yoyoman would break test it for me. I can't imagine that it would be unsafe to use for a lanyard.
 

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Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Looks like the bury needed to be spaced a strand or two more, my orange one above also needed to spread out a little more.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
Brocky I think you're right. I checked it and the brummels skip 5, where the bury only skips 3. Thanks. I wondered why it looked a little odd.

I also found out that Knot & Rope Supply sells long, thin splicing wands made just for splicing 16 strand arborist climbing rope. A little pricey for me because I won't do a ton of splicing on 16 strand, but it sounds like a great way to go.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
Ok so here I go sounding like an ass... But this splice isn't the best place to learn... If you want to learn a locking Brummell start with some hollow braid.. I'm not against experimental splices, our out of the box ones but not by those just learning...
 

Njdelaney

Well-Known Member
Location
Detroit
@dmonn Here is a link to the video I used for splicing that same rope and some pictures of the outcome and fid I used. Mine is made from a doubled over metal coat hanger with a wood handle. It is about 15" long. I think you can do this with the tools you have but it is a pain in the ass for sure!
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
Ok so here I go sounding like an ass... But this splice isn't the best place to learn... If you want to learn a locking Brummell start with some hollow braid.. I'm not against experimental splices, our out of the box ones but not by those just learning...
Not an ass. You're just trying to be helpful. I get it. But I've been doing locking brummels on hollow braid for several years. That's why I thought I'd try it on 16 strand, just for something to play around with while I'm recovering from foot surgery.
 

dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
@dmonn Here is a link to the video I used for splicing that same rope and some pictures of the outcome and fid I used. Mine is made from a doubled over metal coat hanger with a wood handle. It is about 15" long. I think you can do this with the tools you have but it is a pain in the ass for sure!
Great video. I guess I was close on my first two attempts, but wasn't doing the first cover pull exiting where the core strands had been pulled out. That should make it easier. I was pulling it out where it was still in the hollow part, and just had a lot of trouble catching fibers along the way. More practice and patience should do it. Thanks.
 

Njdelaney

Well-Known Member
Location
Detroit
You're welcome. This was the only video I could find that worked for me start to finish. A solid anchor point is crucial in my opinion. I use a sling and steel biner attached to the giant old iron radiators in my house. I also lost my temper a couple times doing the bury and had to walk away for a few minutes rather than launching the whole project out the window or punching a hole in the wall haha.
 

oldoakman

Well-Known Member
Location
Alorgia
John Hartenberg from knot and rope has a youtube video where he uses the extra long Toss fid and does the full bury in one step. I have that fid but have never tried the splice that way for fear of breaking the snare.
 
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dmonn

Well-Known Member
Location
Mequon
I watched that video. He sure made it look easy with that super long Toss fid. I managed to get a good Class I splice done using the 2 pull technique. I got that reduced cover pulled through OK, but my wife came to see what all the noise and swearing was about. I'll post a photo later today.
 

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