ISA Cetified Arborist Agreement

Good questions Frans.

I've been a Certified Arborist since 1991 and when my CA expires in two months I'm dropping out. Its really been of little benefit to me for almost a decade.

The arborist formally known as PD-####.
 
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Are you saying that the cert. board acted to make a major policy change to the ISA without bringing it to the board for evaluation and input before instituting this new policy?



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That's what I've gathered - there was no 'vote' from the membership, or even the ISA executive on this. The Certification Board just whipped it up and made it happen. Perhaps as members, we can petition our local chapters to order an evaluation of the certification board and its members to determine their motives. In the reply I got from them, they were certain that this is a 'par for the course' part of any certificaion, including ones with members outside of the US. Should be easy enough to turn around - pipe up to your chapter representative and if you chose to sign the document, include a note that you are doing it under protest and are part of a program to overturn the Certification Board's decision on this 'CA Agreement'. . the ethics agreement seems like a good idea, but their attorney's took it a bit too far, and who knows why the board members bought into it. This makes the ISA look extremely 'Bush' league.
 
I got into this awhile back (there was an earlier thread, if anyone cares to look). My first instinct was not to sign. We talked about it here, and agreed we think the CA is important. We called the ISA, and they said on the phone they weren't really interested in traffic tickets and the like; only crimes that relate to the work were to be considered important. I finally just signed in a weak moment to get done with it.

The more I think about it, the more I regret my decision. Now I am thinking I may send a letter to them every day. "Dear ISA, Today I saw a pretty college student and had impure thoughts about her." "Dear ISA, Today I didn't wear my seatbelt as I drove to the grocery store." Dear ISA, Today I yelled at my dog when I was really mad at someone else."

It's petty and childish, and likely counterproductive, but I can't rule out the possibility that I will start doing it soon. If many of us do it, it might make more of a statement. Anyone with me?

k
 
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... We called the ISA, and they said on the phone they weren't really interested in traffic tickets and the like; only crimes that relate to the work were to be considered important.

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If it were true that they are only interested in 'crimes that relate to the work' than why is the form written differently?

These types of excuses are specious. Sorta like saying 'well, the computer asks for it, so I have to ask'

By and large it seems like most people on this web forum are confused by what appears to be a push by the isa to require personal information from it's members which has nothing to do with the stated goals of the isa.

partial summery:

The new rules will help determine if a c.a. can, or cannot, maintain their certification. To date, there appears to be not one case of the isa EVER taking a cert. away from a c.a. for failure to comply with the isa's stated goals and rules of conduct.
This will be the first move by the isa which could result in c.a.s losing their certs. Oddly enough, the reasons will have nothing to do with standards of arboricultural work by c.a.

The cert. board came up with this, and did not consult the board members nor the members of isa.

The form is broad reaching with no real parameters

The cert. board may, or may not, have offered confusing comments regarding the nature of the 'crimes' which could adversely effect a c.a.'s certification
 
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... We called the ISA, and they said on the phone they weren't really interested in traffic tickets and the like; only crimes that relate to the work were to be considered important.

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If it were true that they are only interested in 'crimes that relate to the work' than why is the form written differently?

These types of excuses are specious. Sorta like saying 'well, the computer asks for it, so I have to ask'



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Exactly right. Otherwise it not only seems wishy washy, but is that way. If it does not matter, then don't ask.

It gives the impression that standards are being watered down.
 
Guy,

I have extensive prior experience with ISO standards; hence my comment. Really, ISO doesn't specify anything at all- it's simply a system to do what you already do. Perhaps it was something brought up at an ISO audit?

I'm not sure what they're trying to accomplish with this; as Frans has stated, no one has ever had their cert yanked.

If everyone thinks back, I'd bet not one single person here could answer in the affirmative that they've never done something illegal. Frans, I saw you drive without your seat belt. Guess you're screwed. :LOL:

Seriously though, as was pointed out- if they're only concerned with tree-related matters, 2would it have been so hard to just put it that way on the form?

The author(s) of this form partook of much lead paint as a child.
 
Don't know 'bout ya'll, but I think the scale and scope of this boondoggle will mean that someone advertising as "A former certified arborist" will qualify them as a better arborist/individual with integrity than someone who willingly signed (as it now stands) the moral code and lied about the details to pass the unrealistic (and possibly illegal) disclosure agreement.
 
Oakwilt, funny you mention it. I was wonder what I was going to do with all my business cards. The word "former" should allow a person to use 'em all up, without backlash from the ISA.

Yesterday I got a letter from Derrick Vannice (Director of Certification). NOW I have to complete an on-line test to remain a Proctor for the Certification exams. Ummmm I hope he isn't holding his breath waiting for me to complete it!
 
FCA, FMA, FCTW, FISA. Credentials hard won and now more relevent and representative of a "step-up" from what's become a lame-duck and irrelevent, repressive organization that has to date - not enforced the very requirements they represent to uphold (with your monies).

There was a world-class architect (RIP) named O'Neal Ford,ICS who helped restore Downtown San Antonio during reconstruction prior to '68 World's Hemisfair. Asked to present to the annual Internation Association of Architecture (AIA) Conference, which he was the directing board member, he wowed the attendees with presentations of his monumental acheivements. Not asked for years since his climb to recognition and fame - until later that night - just what institution and credentials in his moniker represented, he replied "International Correspondent Schools". He had spent $50 on a mail-order "degree" in the late 1930's. Self-taught and studious with historical designs filed in the downtown library, he self-taught his way to excellence.
 
The way I see it the ISA is an organization that exists because of the money that CAs pay in dues and fees to maintain CEUs and through the many hard working volunteers that keep the machine rolling. When the members are no more the organization is no more. When the industry abandons the organization the org. looses credibility. When we all refuse to sign..as it looks like many will..and the flow of money slows...something will have to change.
I personally do not make my living on the fact that I am a certified arborist. It is very expensive to maintain the cert. and requires time that could otherwise devote to other things. I value the education and wanted to support an org that I felt was doing alot to help trees and the people who care for them.
I fail to stop for three stop signs on the way to work every morning at 5:30 am on a two lane back country road. It's illegal but IMO not unsafe. Does the ISA need to know about it? HMMMMM....if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear....does it make a sound?
what is public record they can find out what isn't didn't happen. I am as honest and moral as I can be...I love trees...GOD will judge me I don't need the ISA to do that.
I will not be signing. That will make me sad.
The way I see it..it would be impossible for almost anyone to answer those questions honestly. The ones that sign and lie or fail to tell the whole truth are all that will be left. How credible is that going to make the ISA?
 
First off, I'll admit I have not read the entire agreement, I have read everyones posts, the agreement or word of it has not officially made it across the water to Oz yet...when it does I will be in exactly the same quandary as TNTree.

I am in agreement with the sentiments of your post.
 
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Oakwilt, funny you mention it. I was wonder what I was going to do with all my business cards. The word "former" should allow a person to use 'em all up, without backlash from the ISA.

Yesterday I got a letter from Derrick Vannice (Director of Certification). NOW I have to complete an on-line test to remain a Proctor for the Certification exams. Ummmm I hope he isn't holding his breath waiting for me to complete it!

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Orrrrr ....

M. D. Vaden

Arborist - Certified - Insured

Because I'm also a Certified Landscape Tech. Therefore, and Arborist, Certified, and Insured.

But I'm sure I'll be keeping my CA stuff current. No skeletons in this closet. Not even a traffic ticket I can think of back to at least 1980-ish.
 
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