- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Can anyone tell me if "Empress (Royal) Paulownia" is a tree that would be a good yard tree for Iowa? From what I read it sounds like one that should be avoided. I'm not at all familiar with it.
Is this a desirable tree?
- Thread starter Tom Dunlap
- Start date
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
Google it. It's an invasive species.
Dan
Dan
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
I've seen plants on invasive species lists that I have never see growing outside of established landscapes. There are lots of really loose criteria for people making up invasive species lists. A plant in one biome might stay contained and in another it might over run the landscape.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
Tom lots of times an invasive species will not spread in the yard in which it is planted but instead it comes up along the stream bank a half mile away.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Yes, I know that. That isn't enough reason to put some species on invasive lists.
Colorado blue spruce and Norway maple should be on the list for Minneapolis by some criteria.
Here's an example...Amur maple, Acer ginnala, is on an invasive list in MN. In the thirty years since I learned to identify Amur I have not seen ONE outside of landscape areas. Hardly reason to have it on the list.
If we get down to brass tacks there are plenty of plants that are invasive but not on the list. Think of how damaging turf grass, especially Kentucky bluegrass is to trees. Then you still need to consider the damage done by the biggest invasive species...humans.
Just because a plant is on someone's invasive list doesn't always take it off the desirable list.
What can you tell me about your experiences with Palownia? For the sake of discussion, take the fact that it is on someone's invasive list, out of consideration.
Colorado blue spruce and Norway maple should be on the list for Minneapolis by some criteria.
Here's an example...Amur maple, Acer ginnala, is on an invasive list in MN. In the thirty years since I learned to identify Amur I have not seen ONE outside of landscape areas. Hardly reason to have it on the list.
If we get down to brass tacks there are plenty of plants that are invasive but not on the list. Think of how damaging turf grass, especially Kentucky bluegrass is to trees. Then you still need to consider the damage done by the biggest invasive species...humans.
Just because a plant is on someone's invasive list doesn't always take it off the desirable list.
What can you tell me about your experiences with Palownia? For the sake of discussion, take the fact that it is on someone's invasive list, out of consideration.
Well, you're right that invasiveness can vary from place to place. Even within the area here, there are some places where weeping cherry has naturalized pretty agressively, many others where it doesn't really at all. Like Siberian elm, I know many places in NM it's crazy, I thought it was in CO also? But not really at all many other places. Paulownia, on the other hand, rivals Ailanthus sometimes in the range of conditions it can grow in and spread. I personally don't know about Iowa, but I would be extremely cautious. Each tree contains hundreds of pods, each pod contains hundreds of airborne seeds. I've seen them pop up in the Smokies miles and miles deep in the forest from the nearest population.
But I know you said ignoring the possibility of invasiveness, I just have a hard time with that. I know what you mean when you say what might be listed someplace might not be a real reflection. I think of most invasives as biological pollution. They're just plants doing what plants do, can't blame them, and it is humans who screw things up by moving stuff around so much, but I think it's better to limit it than ignore it. Just because they're not diseases or insects like chesnut blight or HWA or whatever, doesn't mean they don't do damage. Not to be preachy or anything.
As far as their properties, the growth is incredibly fast, pretty coarse with very fat twigs, and the wood is light and brittle, alot like Ailanthus. We've clogged a chipper just chipping limbs with seed pods, they are so gummy and wet. They're pretty messy, but the flowers are pretty and unusual. The form is okay, fairly open, loose, decurrent branching. Something comparable but I think probably much better might be Catalpa, probably northern up there, they're pretty tough even in plains situations. A bit messy also, and they're not native there, either. The leaves can get pretty beaten by hail if it hits. I'm not sure how invasive they might be there.
But I know you said ignoring the possibility of invasiveness, I just have a hard time with that. I know what you mean when you say what might be listed someplace might not be a real reflection. I think of most invasives as biological pollution. They're just plants doing what plants do, can't blame them, and it is humans who screw things up by moving stuff around so much, but I think it's better to limit it than ignore it. Just because they're not diseases or insects like chesnut blight or HWA or whatever, doesn't mean they don't do damage. Not to be preachy or anything.
As far as their properties, the growth is incredibly fast, pretty coarse with very fat twigs, and the wood is light and brittle, alot like Ailanthus. We've clogged a chipper just chipping limbs with seed pods, they are so gummy and wet. They're pretty messy, but the flowers are pretty and unusual. The form is okay, fairly open, loose, decurrent branching. Something comparable but I think probably much better might be Catalpa, probably northern up there, they're pretty tough even in plains situations. A bit messy also, and they're not native there, either. The leaves can get pretty beaten by hail if it hits. I'm not sure how invasive they might be there.
Here's some links
about the tree
invasiveness and spread in USA
We have quite a few around here and they're OK but quite open, tall form ... no suitable as much of a shade tree or ornamental ... bit sparse to look at but lovelly in flower.
Over here basically species get listed on the undesirable list when they self propogate and compete against our natives and win ... in other words if it can out grow, suppress or over take our indigenious desirable species it will get the demon coding .... similar to the way USA treats Melaleuca's (paperbarks) in the Everglades.
about the tree
invasiveness and spread in USA
We have quite a few around here and they're OK but quite open, tall form ... no suitable as much of a shade tree or ornamental ... bit sparse to look at but lovelly in flower.
Over here basically species get listed on the undesirable list when they self propogate and compete against our natives and win ... in other words if it can out grow, suppress or over take our indigenious desirable species it will get the demon coding .... similar to the way USA treats Melaleuca's (paperbarks) in the Everglades.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Catalpa is on my A-list for urban trees.
Thanks for the insights about the tree. I know a bit about ailanthus from being in Denver. Never saw one in Minnesota.
Thanks for the insights about the tree. I know a bit about ailanthus from being in Denver. Never saw one in Minnesota.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
What can you tell me about your experiences with Palownia? For the sake of discussion, take the fact that it is on someone's invasive list, out of consideration.
[/ QUOTE ]
What I can tell you about Paulownia is that I have at least two dozen growing in the yard as I type. I didn't plant even one of them. They grow very fast and if cut down sprout vigorously from the stump. Truly a weed tree.
With so many fine cultivars of trees, shrubs and perennials available in addition to native species it is poor judgment to introduce known invasive species to a presently unaffected area.
Our country is littered with invasive species and many locations would have likely not been invaded if it were not for those gardeners that thought they knew better than the experts.
What can you tell me about your experiences with Palownia? For the sake of discussion, take the fact that it is on someone's invasive list, out of consideration.
[/ QUOTE ]
What I can tell you about Paulownia is that I have at least two dozen growing in the yard as I type. I didn't plant even one of them. They grow very fast and if cut down sprout vigorously from the stump. Truly a weed tree.
With so many fine cultivars of trees, shrubs and perennials available in addition to native species it is poor judgment to introduce known invasive species to a presently unaffected area.
Our country is littered with invasive species and many locations would have likely not been invaded if it were not for those gardeners that thought they knew better than the experts.
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
Well, Our yard is littered with Madrone in southern Oregon, as well as oak, and in Portland, Japanese maple from landscapes, or Douglas fir from every quarter, would seed and grow regularly.
From one aspect, you could call these areas "littered" with those trees. But that littering is what makes the forests so grand here.
I can live comfortably with certain kinds of littering.
Many of the littering kinds adapt very well.
/forum/images/graemlins/parry.gif
From one aspect, you could call these areas "littered" with those trees. But that littering is what makes the forests so grand here.
I can live comfortably with certain kinds of littering.
Many of the littering kinds adapt very well.
/forum/images/graemlins/parry.gif
- Location
- Nashville, TN
someone correct me if i am wrong, but i believe that this is one of, if not the fastest growing tree. they will grow anywhere, and do have a nice purple flower.... They are very weak, and the "nuts" that they produce are very messy(and sticky) I would say that this tree is on my C or D list... very similer in my mind to Mimosa (exept not from Japan).
Rob
Rob
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
Yes, fast growing.
Sure has a nice flower and leaf, doesn't it.
If only the fastest trees could have been the most durable.
Could you imagine a lombardy poplar or weeping willow with no problems? No splitting - no short life span - no septic issues.
Sure has a nice flower and leaf, doesn't it.
If only the fastest trees could have been the most durable.
Could you imagine a lombardy poplar or weeping willow with no problems? No splitting - no short life span - no septic issues.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
I like Paulownia, chinaberry, wingnut etc; all fast growers but yes potentially invasive. Structurally, they do not break in ice storms and hurricanes like some of our native oaks do.
In the cities I think they may have a place where there is no natural ecosystem left to disrupt!
Liriodendron (tulip "poplar") is my favorite tree here because it is fast-growing and native and upright and pest-free. In Iowa, I don't know, ask your county extension agent or ISU.
In the cities I think they may have a place where there is no natural ecosystem left to disrupt!
Liriodendron (tulip "poplar") is my favorite tree here because it is fast-growing and native and upright and pest-free. In Iowa, I don't know, ask your county extension agent or ISU.
- Location
- urbana, il.
pawlonia tomentosa around central il. only live about 20-30yrs. at best -25 to -30 f. kills them to ground! i still like them but here they rarely flower- too cold!
- Location
- magalia california
Tom ....Catalpa is on your A List ..really ?....paulownia and Catalpa are down on the D list for us...We dont even condider them .Prone to to much breakage in our summer months and very messy. As long as they are planted out of a target zone, than I suppose they would be ok ...
We have some very large one in our neck of the woods and I havn't seen one yet that hasnt failed in one way or the other . I hate climbing the dang things. You never know if the limb is just going to break ...Both species kind of remind me of Bass wood...light airy and unpredictable.
Good Luck
Greg
Greg
We have some very large one in our neck of the woods and I havn't seen one yet that hasnt failed in one way or the other . I hate climbing the dang things. You never know if the limb is just going to break ...Both species kind of remind me of Bass wood...light airy and unpredictable.
Good Luck
Greg
Greg
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Greg,
That shows how the same tree can be a bit different in other biomes. In Minneapolis they make good trees. Sure the leaves are big but locust are small and silver maple are many. The seeds/bean pods aren't that big a deal. After doing storm cleanup I can hardly recall doing any work on catalpas.
When they are in bloom they are THE most fantastic flowering tree around...Minneapolis
That shows how the same tree can be a bit different in other biomes. In Minneapolis they make good trees. Sure the leaves are big but locust are small and silver maple are many. The seeds/bean pods aren't that big a deal. After doing storm cleanup I can hardly recall doing any work on catalpas.
When they are in bloom they are THE most fantastic flowering tree around...Minneapolis
- Location
- magalia california
And how do the Silver Maples hold up ?....they are one of our most problematic trees also. Of course 98% of them were topped at one time which doesn't help thier life span by any means. Poor CODIT, fast growing and get very large here . Again , D list for us ....we have never planted one in the 14 years I've been with the city .
Greg
Greg
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
It's a rare SM that is in good shape at maturity. It seems like the less work that is done to them the healthier they are.
The leaf comment evolved from people saying they didn't like catalpa because of the leaves but didn't mind a nasty, dangerous SM. Inconsistent...
The leaf comment evolved from people saying they didn't like catalpa because of the leaves but didn't mind a nasty, dangerous SM. Inconsistent...
- Location
- NW Indiana
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