Independent contract climber

MARK_CHISHOLM said:
You really think so? Cause I feel the opposite. When we schedule work we are very careful to put the right crew on the right job.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of a pessimist and a cynic, so maybe I'm jaded. But, I do think you're describing something that's uncommon. Most employer/employee relationships are business agreements. Employers try to squeeze every bit they can out of their employees and pay them as little as possible. Employees try to get the most they can from their employers by working hard but they only focus on doing exactly what's expected of them that day. That business relationship can and does end at any point when it ceases to be beneficial for one or the other or both. Sometimes, sadly that can happen when a climber can no longer physically produce at the same level. If they haven't made themselves valuable in some other way, the relationship ends. The onus is on the employee to make themselves valuable. It's rare when an employer works hard to outline what valuable means to them and then guides their employees toward that end. All of that is an ongoing process that takes into account the season of the employees career. When the employee is new, they have a strong back and a weak mind. When they've been around several years, they're well-rounded and fully capable. When they're older, they should be very experienced and wise. For employers to cultivate all that in all their employees is a lot of extra work. They're usually very busy with other things. What's more common is a few smart employees figure it out and do it on their own. As a result, those few employees end up growing with the company. The rest, they come and go. And sometimes, they're disgruntled when they do go because no one held their hand in the growing process. The best employers do spend extra time and effort cultivating the team toward log-term goals, but I do think it's rare.
 
I Would agree with you on most of your post. There needs to be something of value in an individual that creates another Avenue to grow with the company. I just see too many people come and go from quality companies chasing pennies and not seeing the dollars that are there later if they stay. Bouncing around is a young man's game that gets old some day real quick.
 
Steve have you considered moving to a different location? It seems like you are highly qualified and experienced and there are many companies around the US looking to hire you.
As far as working past 3:00 goes, all of the subs I know do not work more than eight (unless they want to)
It seems there are benefits to working as a sub although is it really that much better than a high hourly rate? Not for me. I am fortunate to have an employer that truly follows the standard of Safety-Quality-Production. So there is not an extreme amount of pressure to work really fast although there are incentives to do so.
I worked as a sub for a home builder for a number of years and I found out later that it was all illegal being that you can only sub for one company for a certain amount of hours before you must become an employee. Just something else to consider and one of the reasons I feel it is best (as Mark and others have said) for the long haul to either be an owner or employee.
 
Seems like independent contract climber may be better as like a part time job . After rereading through this thread.
Money can be good doing it, evil as hell at the same time. I think most would agree we do it cause we love it .
 
MARK_CHISHOLM said:
Bouncing around is a young man's game that gets old some day real quick.
Click to expand...

So very true, I was a contract climber for around 8 years from around 25 to 33, one day you wake up and smell the coffee, you ask yourself, 'why am I making these companies so much money and improving their business reputation off the back of my years of effort and experience, yet I have absolutely no long term financial security and none of the many other advantages they have?'

I started my own company and never looked back. I don't understand climbers who want to contract climb for the rest of their lives. I don't want to either.
 
Last edited:
Well I can chime in and say—and I think Steve would agree—that he doesn't have many quality tree services to pick from. If you're a conscientious ISA Certified Arborist you're going to find very few tree companies (maybe 10 out of 100) that you can work for locally and stay both safe and sane. Local demographics yield few high end properties with repeat customers interested in quality tree care. Those clients do exist, just not in numbers large enough to support many quality tree services.

We have to change the public's perception of the importance of trees. All tree workers/arborists, skilled or not, educated or not, are in the same boat when it comes to the public's willingness to support quality tree care. Many local tree workers don't seek arboricultural education because they can't visualize a return on their investment of time and money. Reluctantly, I admit that many of them are right.

I realize that's not a solution for Steve's search, but I think it's a fair description of the underlying problem.
 
Would I consider relocating? I would love to. I am in love with the rocky mountain states. I would give anything to move to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado or even the PNW. The truth of the matter is i'm 45. I have 8 years until I can draw a 65% retirement from the fire department. Not willing to give that up. Also my family is all over the US and I'm not close to any of them. After my wife died the only legacy my 5 year old has to her is her family. The only legacy they have to her is him. Despite the touchy relationship I have with them, I won't rob him or them of the experience of being close to his mothers family. I just can't. Its wrong.

Glenn hit the nail on the head. This is not a progressive market for tree work. Tons of tree removals and not too much tree care. The only thing that sets me apart from the normal day climber, besides the felony warrant and the drug and alcohol issues is the ability to climb spikeless and have an eye for pruning. I have Glenn to thank for that. He does tree care! Everyone else I have worked for does tree work. They can easily contract the drunk for a day rate and enough money for the next fix. He's usually under equipped, unsafe, careless, ego driven but he can get wood on the ground lightning fast. I can do what I do and do it well. The difference is the safety aspect and the rigging part of things take time to set up. Even the guys I work with now. The boss always has an issue that I get off the ground later than the other guys. He leaves the job site seeing them 50' up and me just starting. What he doesn't see it that I have a TIP, I'm on srt and I have a plan. I am generally done with my work before they are and I'm not smashing stuff or destroying the understory. He's gone so he doesn't see the production. All he sees is why doesn't Steve just throw on the spikes and get the f&*k up there already. Not a progressive area for climbers. There are some great climbers around here but I have not met another climber that uses srt. That should say something. I just can't compete with the risk taking climber who is blowing limbs out of the trees at a ferocious face with no regard for property or ground help. That's why I have reservations about subbing out. What I want is to be on a pruning crew. I'd be happy to never wear spikes again and only do high end work. That's what I do best. I think you can teach anybody to blast out chunks of wood into a huge pile on the smashed flower bed. The company motto of many of these guys is make me money. I'd rather work for a company who sees the work as their signature and advertisement. When I worked for Glenn and when I had my own company, if I wasn't willing to hang a sign on the tree that said Steve Connally did this work then it wasn't worth doing. Now I'd usually prefer wearing a nylon stocking over my head and a shirt that said no I'm not Steve.

So you are probably asking why not just start up your own gig again. Well, employees! Profit margin! Being compensated for the colossal amount of time it takes for the owner to run a legit tree service. Did I say employees? Who will be on the job when I'm not there treating my stuff like it belongs to them and with the work ethic of generations past. It's just not worth my time. Hey I fired a guy for throwing a hardees bag in the street gutter on a job site. He lied about doing it and it sent a message about the quality of my company and how we conduct ourselves. The guys I need to be successful aren't out there. There's plenty of guys good a tree work but a few I'd trust to have keys to my stuff. Nobody around here grows up and says I wanna be a tree guy. It's generally the guys who can't make it as roofers and that's something.

So in summary. Who's gonna hire me when I'm retired from the fire department. Send me your company resumes' and i'll give you consideration. LOL I love the work. I hate our market! We are years behind other parts of the country. blah blah blah ect ect ect
 
Well it sounds like you may have a chance to to become the fine-pruning sub-contractor in your area. I'm sure even the crappy companies get asked to do it once and awhile. If I were you I would get in everyone's ear and make sure that if a tree is being pruned or a technical removal is taking place in your area that YOU are the guy to call.
 
Steve, I saw your post about the spikescender on climbers online and noticed you're in Hampton Roads. I'm not far from you. Pm me and we can talk more I may know some people I can get you in touch with. BTW all climbers on my crew climb SRT
 
It sounds like you should start your own small company, and still sub out to other companies as their climber. Then you have back up cash if work load for yourself is slim. Maybe find someone who is looking for a part time job, and an appetite to learn, and train them. Seems like a way to dip your toes in the water without getting too wet.
 
MikePowers321 said:
It sounds like you should start your own small company, and still sub out to other companies as their climber. Then you have back up cash if work load for yourself is slim. Maybe find someone who is looking for a part time job, and an appetite to learn, and train them. Seems like a way to dip your toes in the water without getting too wet.
Click to expand...
Its like you just described my life in a nut shell. :wtf:
 
MikePowers321 said:
It sounds like you should start your own small company, and still sub out to other companies as their climber. Then you have back up cash if work load for yourself is slim. Maybe find someone who is looking for a part time job, and an appetite to learn, and train them. Seems like a way to dip your toes in the water without getting too wet.
Click to expand...
Not a bad way to do it if you keep your overhead very low ..as all the other costs of business can eat you up if your not careful . Not bad just running with one man if he's good . Then when you get sub work he's covered under your ins. and you get to keep your familiar rope man . cause I don't care what anybody says because a great grounsman / rope man can make even an average climber look good and stay safe .
Edit: equipment overhead
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom