If you could only have 3 lowering devices…

Tony said:
In many years of rigging and lowering, having to worry about the lowering device heating up to the point of it being an issue has not happened.

In the early years, before mechanization, the cycle was slow enough to allow the device to cool. As in when we got to heavy wood, by the time it was rigged, cut, lowered, processed; moved out of the way, there was plenty of time for any residual heat to dissipate on any lower device. We also got real good at accurate bombing and vertical speedlines.

I can only speak to large and long runs in my work area of the Eastern US. For us, the two were almost mutually exclusive. A long run would be 80-90‘ (24-30 meters). At this height we were working on canopy pieces, as the trees were 100-120’ (30-35meters). most pieces would be relatively light < 200lb (100kg).

When the loads got heavy, >300lb (135kg) the runs were relatively short. Well under 50-60’ (15-18 meters)

For the past 20 years, we rarely lower large wood. All crane work if it needs to be rigged.

Having said all that, the difference in heat dissipation between stainless and aluminum is not really an issue for us. The wear and tear, the bouncing around in the tool box, the wet weather, the cold, the overall durability and ease of maintaining is a much bigger concern. So we opt for stainless and/or steel for port-a-wraps and bollards.

Your milage may vary…

Tony
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hello tony,
i‘m not worried at all about the device running hot and still being hot when doing the next rig. while letting stuff run the stainless with take the heat away from the rope at a much lower rate than steel or aluminium and therefore glaze the ropes which is obviuosly not good.

i might be wrong but i think stainless is also more brittle than regular old steel and i have seen pictures of a cracked notch stainless port-a-wrap.

greetings
 
Friedrich said:
hello tony,
i‘m not worried at all about the device running hot and still being hot when doing the next rig. while letting stuff run the stainless with take the heat away from the rope at a much lower rate than steel or aluminium and therefore glaze the ropes which is obviuosly not good.

i might be wrong but i think stainless is also more brittle than regular old steel and i have seen pictures of a cracked notch stainless port-a-wrap.

greetings
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I think I can answer that with the generic, ‘it depends’. Alloys vary greatly and have wide overlaps. Malleability, ductile strength, and plastic deformation are all elements at play.

From my arm chair, stainless will have less friction on a moving rope than steel or aluminum (?)

I suspect the cracked porties is likely due to the manufacturer or operator errors. Did the welds crack? Heat affected zone around the weld? The barrel? Or the bends?
 
Just curious about the question . It is 2023 , why would you need 3 lowering devices ? In what scenario ? Again , it s 2023 . curious . 3 , odd number odd question . am I really replying? lowering device cap , hmmm . yeah
 
Riggs said:
Just curious about the question . It is 2023 , why would you need 3 lowering devices ? In what scenario ? Again , it s 2023 . curious . 3 , odd number odd question . am I really replying? lowering device cap , hmmm . yeah
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GRCS self evident, double on the reasons on why not to use it when a porty would do. It’s 2023 and we have areal friction devises now. Still pissed I don’t have a flying car, but if I did I’d still use a bike, and it’s kinda hard to tow a chipper with a flying car.
 
evo said:
GRCS self evident, double on the reasons on why not to use it when a porty would do. It’s 2023 and we have areal friction devises now. Still pissed I don’t have a flying car, but if I did I’d still use a bike, and it’s kinda hard to tow a chipper with a flying car.
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Unless chippers can hover…
 
evo said:
GRCS self evident, double on the reasons on why not to use it when a porty would do. It’s 2023 and we have areal friction devises now. Still pissed I don’t have a flying car, but if I did I’d still use a bike, and it’s kinda hard to tow a chipper with a flying car.
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Or we just have mobile incineration machines.
 
Reason to use a GRCS instead of a porty: anybody lower limbs with a porty only to find it got hung up in a crotch or stub or the groundie lowered it on some comm lines?
A GRCS can raise and lower with ease, a porty can do both as well but not so easily.
That being said my porty is a daily flyer while the GRCS is saved for the big tricky removals over targets.
 
flushcut said:
Reason to use a GRCS instead of a porty: anybody lower limbs with a porty only to find it got hung up in a crotch or stub or the groundie lowered it on some comm lines?
A GRCS can raise and lower with ease, a porty can do both as well but not so easily.
That being said my porty is a daily flyer while the GRCS is saved for the big tricky removals over targets.
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Yes, my nephew is a big fan of the GRCS, I’d like one but don’t seem to be able to pull the trigger, cos, it so bloody pricey.
 
GRCS changed my rigging dramatically. Everyone always says it's for "lifting". That's what everyone talks about, lifting, lifting, lifting. You can lift with it, but that's not the point, in my mind anyway. GRCS is about tension. I went 15 years with a porty, sweating the ropes trying to get enough tension. Never quite getting enough and always just making do. Now, finally, I'm able to properly tension my rigging lines, quickly and easily. That's the point. I would say 85% of my rigging is positive / overhead, and having properly tensioned ropes changes everything. I can take pieces 2-4 times bigger than I used to, with no shock load, because everything is fully tensioned up before the cut is made. "Lifting" stuff is a huge bonus, an amazing cherry on the top of a brilliant rope tensioning and lowering tool. And for all the people who boohoo about lowering on the winch, watch Greg Good's own videos. He pounds the shit out of the winch with negative rigging. That thing is bomber.
 
Muggs said:
GRCS changed my rigging dramatically. Everyone always says it's for "lifting". That's what everyone talks about, lifting, lifting, lifting. You can lift with it, but that's not the point, in my mind anyway. GRCS is about tension. I went 15 years with a porty, sweating the ropes trying to get enough tension. Never quite getting enough and always just making do. Now, finally, I'm able to properly tension my rigging lines, quickly and easily. That's the point. I would say 85% of my rigging is positive / overhead, and having properly tensioned ropes changes everything. I can take pieces 2-4 times bigger than I used to, with no shock load, because everything is fully tensioned up before the cut is made. "Lifting" stuff is a huge bonus, an amazing cherry on the top of a brilliant rope tensioning and lowering tool. And for all the people who boohoo about lowering on the winch, watch Greg Good's own videos. He pounds the shit out of the winch with negative rigging. That thing is bomber.
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Agreed, and pulling or yarding. Pulling back leaners, high lines, etc.
with a good drill it’s very versatile
 
Mick Dempsey said:
1: Natural crotch
2: Portawrap, floppy thing, easy to set up and carry. Only really effective if you’re snubbing the piece.
3: RC3000. Pita to set up but comfortingly easy to run stuff.
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Floppy is you don't use a cheap ratchet strap above it to hold it upright, with easy to adjust webbing tension via some more clicks on the buckle after pieces have stretched and set the anchor sling.

The hook of the ratchet strap can hook into the top ring of the POW where people attach MA devices for pre-loading the rigging line. Mind the running of the rope across the hook/ buckle...no burrs on the hook or snaggy places on the buckle.
 
Through some cruel twist of fate, during those first 15 years I never once got to work with anyone who had a GRCS. If I had, I can 100% guarantee you that I would have bought one sooner. Technical rigging will never be the same for me now that my eyes have been opened.

And as far as this insistent competition goes in people's minds between the Hobbs and the Goods, it's silliness. That's the other reason I never bought one, because of the back and forth of reviews and comments, I could never decide which one I wanted to try. I've still never used a Hobbs but it's obviously amazing. Point is, if you are serious about tree work and rigging, you need one of these devices. Both are great, just pick one.

Are they expensive? Hell yes they are. But they pay for themselves in a season or less, easily. And they will last your whole career. If I was starting over, I would have a Hobbs or Goods on my shortlist of required gear, and I would just pound out removal jobs until I could afford one.
 
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Mick Dempsey said:
Noticed that, and so has my nephew who encourages his near retirement uncle to by one!
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Think if it this way. The GRCS is like using a 90-100cc saw when you could get away with using a 60cc. It's not going to come out to play often, but when it does it saves from having to do all the tricks needed.
Like Mugg's mentioned, its great for preloading and static weighted rigging. Sure one can do the same with a 5:1 and a porty, but no where as gracefully. I'll still use a 5:1 and porty, and a 60cc saw double cutting bigger wood. But its a great tool in the box when you need it.

@Muggs I had the same hesitancy, other than using a GRCS on a previous crew (and I hated it!). We only used it a few times, and really only for pulling back leaners with the hand crank. GRCS vs Hobbs? Both great tools, I haven't used a hobbs. It boils down to if your using it as a bollard lowering devise, it does the pretensioning well. They both do the pretensioning well, but the Hobbs is better for lowering, and the GRCS is better for winching. Of course there is the GRCS bollard, but it doesnt pre tension... Also from the sounds of it, the hobbs should have two folks on it if any real winching is done as it doesn't self tail.
 
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