southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
How is it safer?
I Fear New Gear
- Thread starter TreeSmithAK
- Start date
How is it safer?
John@TreeXP
Branched out member
- Location
- Bainbridge Island
You probably wouldn't want to descend with just a hitch tending pulley on SRT, at least not without a Rope Wrench, whereas on DRT it's easier to tend the un-rope-wrench'd hitch knot because it doesn't bind as much and because a lot of the friction is placed where the line goes over a limb and not on the climber's hardware. As the climber's load is more broadly distributed to both sides of a climbing line on DRT when going up to the tie-in-point, over and back down to the climber, like the Rope Wrench on SRT, it mitigates and eases the tension placed on the climber's descending device, I'm guessing by about 2:1 on DRT, versus 1:1 on SRT.
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southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
So how's it safer?
No disrespect but what drivel am I reading here? All you said is somewhat true but has 0 bearing on safety. You are all over the place with no sound reasoning and not answering Sean's question. Enquiring minds need to know.
John@TreeXP
Branched out member
- Location
- Bainbridge Island
Sorry it's still unclear to you. DRT reduces friction on the descending device, moreso when compared to SRT.
TimBr
Official Well Known Greeter
- Location
- Northern Virginia
Lol, well, kind of! New gear still makes me feel like a kid at christmas but in the context of production work, it's something of a stumbling block to me.
Just wondering if I am alone in my little bit of hesitation of adding new gear & techniques to my climbing closet so to speak. I came up green through the mid 90's in my career, which seemingly is when the rock climbing world & gear started to really meld with the forestry/arboriculture world. Ever since then watching the gear & techniques evolve has been wild, but somewhat difficult to keep up with & adapt to. I've made it beyond the blakes hitch to some degree, but even today I still put so much faith into my familiar old school gear that each time I buy a new piece or try a new technique, I find it cumbersome, almost more mentally which in turn affects my jobsite efficiency. I know spending more leisure time practicing with new techniques/gear would help on that end, but there is a little part of me that just feels old, grumpy & don't need all that new fangled stuff! Am I alone? Do you total gear junkies laugh at us simpletons when we're not looking???
Whats the favorite new toy you splurged on? Mine was accidental in that a company I ordered just set of basic buckingham spurs from mistakenly shipped me Geko Ultra Lights & were kind enough to just say you're welcome to keep them.. I had drooled over them for years but never wanted to fork over the dough for them
@
TreeSmithAK
Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum! I think you are going to like it here! Thanks for starting this great thread!
I can't help but think that @rico is the perfect guy to try to answer your question, as I think it is fairly recently that he has chosen to embrace a lot of the new technology, and he has been a life-long climber.
What say you, @rico? Thanks in advance for any opinions or insights you can share with TreeSmithAK. Much appreciated.
Tim
Still lost....throw a wrench on that SRS hitch and rock that tree. Screw MRS. Damn friction alternating continuously. Constant friction trumps that. Plus it is 2018. Welcome to the age of the SRS movement.
A little over 2 years ago I was still riding an old floating dee leg strap Buckingham saddle, a taught-line hitch, a 7/8" manilla wire core flipline with a becket hitch, and bucks spurs with mallory/caddy pads. I had been wreaking big trees for over 35 years this way and everything was fine.
Then I found the inter web and discovered this whole new world of gear and techniques. Went straight to a modern saddle, and a hitch climber set up. The fucking bees knees, and a gateway drug. I had no idea what I was missing. I keep looking at SRT because of the very long ascents I have. Now I can roll a flip-line up a big stick pretty well, but walking up a single line just looked so easy. I did some research to figure out what kind of setup would be best for the types of work I do. I finally took the plunge to SRT and there simply is no going back for me. This shit is like cheating, and physically so much gentler on my aging body. I am still getting my set up dialed in, but the whole process has really reinvigorated my love for the work I do. I have a few of the latest and greatest saddles, but I am still fine riding an old floating dee, and I still ride Bucks with Caddy pads because they are in my opinion the best. The APTA, Mini Saka, Haas, foot ascender, Rope Wrench, HH2, BDB, static kernmantle rope. Those were the game changers tools for me. I am living proof that old dogs can learn new tricks.
Burrapeg
Been here a while
- Location
- Puget Sound
I am 65 too. Love that new gear! I know all about Old School; was climbing for shipyard crane and rigging work nearly half a century ago, Goddamned manila rope, etc. No way I would still climb at my age without some of these new gadgets. SAKA, MiniSAKA, PMI chest roller, RW and ZZ combo, BDB, and a modern saddle. Wonderful ropes they have now too. Just got some Poison Ivy. Sweet!!!!!
TreeSmithAK
New member
- Location
- Alaska
10-4 on all that... I've resented the industry at times, or at least my time in it and tried to walk away from it but it always lures me back in. From the never seeing the same workspace more than a few days in a row, to the admittedly pseudo ego boosting times when people watch in awe at what we do, as well as being able to tell people I've never seen the inside of a gym, eat like I'm 14 & not exactly losing it to getting older. It is indeed a lifestyle not a career, and a hobby not a job...
John@TreeXP
Branched out member
- Location
- Bainbridge Island
It's no longer about having to pick between either SRT or DRT, when there are benefits to both systems. Climbers can choose to stay on SRT on ascent, switch to DRT on descent, or even add a second SRT or DRT lanyard or climbing line. With so many options, it seems shortsided to be stuck with having to pick one or the other, when most climbers have the gear to use either or both.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Work climbers paying attention to the improved safety and efficiency SRS has brought are spending the majority of time on rope SRS. Doesn't mean they've thrown out MRS, it gets used much less. John I gather you're focused on teaching rec climbing, MRS makes a lot of sense for beginner rec climbers (Tom Dunlap will cage fight me on that statement), and many will stick with that as they progress in their skills. I don't think we're talking about either or, the trend now for working climbers is a much higher percentage of time climbing SRS. When I do rec climbs I'm climbing mainly SRS, the canopy mobility SRS offers is a benefit I don't want to give up on when I'm out in the woods enjoying time in a fine tree.
-AJ
Just the opposite, really. It is not so much being stuck with one, but a conscious effort to stay with SRS. It is looking at and trying to mitigate the long-term ramifications of our climbing activities.
Work with your arms but move with your legs.
John@TreeXP
Branched out member
- Location
- Bainbridge Island
From an instructional standpoint, many instructors start out with MRS training, using outdated methods requiring excessive effort and minimal gear. My approach is more about teaching overall efficiency with modern mechanicals, while also emphasizing safety. I agree that SRS is a preferred mode for ascent and positioning, but MRS makes sense in certain scenarios too, and does surpass SRS with regard to the issue of friction reduction on devices specifically during a descent. The obvious downside to MRS is on ascent, when losing the 1:1 climbing advantage. Switching from SRS to MRS isn't always practical, depending on the location on the tie in point, length of the rope and other factors, but a well educated climber uses these choices to their benefit.
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Crimsonking
Been here a while
I use both every week. I ddrt removals most of the time, unless it’s a pine. Then I’ll srt up, set a fs, then double down. Pruning- srt up, then choose a method for working the tree. Usually ddrt, but occasionally srt. I enjoy the challenge of ddrt and feel like it makes angled climbing easier, whether limb walking or advancing a leaning stem. When I started climbing, it was srt for everything. Once the akimbo releases, I will probably do more srt, as the ponytail redirect is a major factor when choosing ddrt, and the akimbo can be used similarly since it is easy on/off the rope. Great for retrievables and natural bights.
Going back to the original topic- that last paragraph is argument for blazing new trails in your mind (which is proven to help keep your mind sharp and healthy) and slowing down to learn new techniques. Any good thing requires investment. Since when did hiring a new guy automatically speed things up? Remember, investment means to give a little on the front end to make larger gains on the back. Invest time in new techniques, gain time and energy in the long run. The best part for the original poster will be having a strong background in older, proven methods against which to see the newer techniques. I know this is the story for many of you, and I have much respect for all of you, as your origins were a hotter crucible than mine physically.
Going back to the original topic- that last paragraph is argument for blazing new trails in your mind (which is proven to help keep your mind sharp and healthy) and slowing down to learn new techniques. Any good thing requires investment. Since when did hiring a new guy automatically speed things up? Remember, investment means to give a little on the front end to make larger gains on the back. Invest time in new techniques, gain time and energy in the long run. The best part for the original poster will be having a strong background in older, proven methods against which to see the newer techniques. I know this is the story for many of you, and I have much respect for all of you, as your origins were a hotter crucible than mine physically.
" and does surpass SRS with regard to the issue of friction reduction on devices specifically during a descent. "
@John@TreeXP
Seriously......this is utterly false....a roperunner dialed is the smoothest fastest descent I have ever experienced bar none...Screw that MRS... small trees and an occasionally removal.. MRS is dying in arboriculture. Just go to any comp....
@John@TreeXP
Seriously......this is utterly false....a roperunner dialed is the smoothest fastest descent I have ever experienced bar none...Screw that MRS... small trees and an occasionally removal.. MRS is dying in arboriculture. Just go to any comp....
John@TreeXP
Branched out member
- Location
- Bainbridge Island
I'm glad that's working out for you. I'm not going to defend this on the basis of preference, especially when a climber can choose from either or both systems, for a broad range of uses. Perhaps being oriented more toward rec climbing in tall trees is causing me to see things differently than you, or other production climbers for that matter and I respect everyone's views. On long descents I prefer MRS, just saying.
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