Has any one had a trusted worker, operate the lift from the base, inbetween the arborist making cuts?

The only reason having someone else run the controls from the ground would be a good idea is if you weren't proficient with the controls, and wanted someone to blame if something went wrong.

The few seconds that is perceived to be lost between moves can be used to better assess the dismantling process, and make decisions accordingly.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Expand on how safety is a cliche. Take as much space as you need to.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Lol, I don't know if I could use much space to expand on how cliche, safety is perceived. But, I'll try.
I just see, some think as long as you have a hard hat on you're inherently safer, in one way, yes, that's true.
But, it can make one, more likely to be unaware of sights or sounds that could precede a greater danger than what a hard hat can protect from.

Also, I see so many construction workers wearing hard hats in an environment where it is not necessary, and the non-necessity of it, could cause immunity or "a subtle, sub conscience, learned lack of consequence", to its time and place of necessity. Which translates into other aspects and realms of safety elsewhere.
There is much truth to the old saying, "by beholding one becomes" If people thought of safety with more of a critical mindset, I think it would command more of an awareness that lacks in many people I've seen, in relation to being aware of danger before it occurs.

I think there was a cliche response, to me having my trusted worker move me about, to dismantle two smaller trees.
In that it could be safe (enough) and efficient to have an adequate worker, operate the lift in a place/setting where he can safely see where to put the cutter, where he needs to be.
Now obviously, if the "trusted" worker is not adequate enough to know when to use the turtle setting, and know when he can't see good enough to continue operation, then yes, that would be not safe.
 
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Willber said:
Thanks. Lol, I don't know if I could use much space to expand on how cliche, safety is perceived. But, I'll try.
I just see, some think as long as you have a hard hat on you're inherently safer, in one way, yes, that's true.
But, it can make one, more likely to be unaware of sights or sounds that could precede a greater danger than what a hard hat can protect from.

Also, I see so many construction workers wearing hard hats in an environment where it is not necessary, and the non-necessity of it, could cause immunity or "a subtle, sub conscience, learned lack of consequence", to its time and place of necessity. Which translates into other aspects and realms of safety elsewhere.
There is much truth to the old saying, "by beholding one becomes" If people thought of safety with more of a critical mindset, I think it would command more of an awareness that lacks in many people I've seen, in relation to being aware of danger before it occurs.

I think there was a cliche response, to me having my trusted worker move me about, to dismantle two smaller trees.
In that it could be safe (enough) and efficient to have an adequate worker, operate the lift in a place/setting where he can safely see where to put the cutter, where he needs to be.
Now obviously, if the "trusted" worker is not adequate enough to know when to use the turtle setting, and know when he can't see good enough to continue operation, then yes, that would be not safe.
Click to expand...

The idea behind safety first, and safety when it doesnt seem necessary is because safety is most effective if it becomes a habit. I see your point. However, if you only wore your helmet when you thought you might need it, what happens when that one time you should have had it on but didnt?

I bucked the safety thing for years. I fought against it because of lack of productivity, chaps were hot, safety glasses got fogged up, etc. But when I realized that I only have 1 body to preserve with all of its faculties, I have a family that needs me, I have employees that have families that needs them, and we need to be able to work into retirement, I realized the short-term inconveniences are very small indeed.

One other thing...if safety is uncomfortable, spend whatever you need to make it work. Many times, just like the hard hat issue you mentioned, if you spend more on a hard hat it will fit better and be more comfortable.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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I think anyone who views safety as a cliché has never had a close call or significant injury, witnessed one, or been affected by one.

Having spent years as a safety professional in heavy industry, wearing basic ppe was a requirement in the plant environment. You may be required to wear a hard hat when it's of dubious protective value, but ensuring compliance with ppe requirements is completely impractical if you try to evaluate every situation any worker is in at any moment. Reminds me of seatbelts - if you always wear it, you'll have it on when you need it.

I did all the accident investigations for a 1550 person work group for a 5 year period. Never once investigated an accident where ppe was a contributing factor to the accident.

I'm often amused by people complaining about wearing a mask or a hard hat. Having worn full firefighting gear, Level A hazmat suits and 40 cal arc flash ensembles, often in brutally hot conditions, wearing basic ppe seems like nothing.
 
So, if I understand @Willber correctly, you’re dismantling 2 Birch trees, you’ve got a small drop zone, and you cant clean up any debris until the lift is moved out of the way. You’ve got a groundie on site with you and you’re trying to figure out how he can make the job go faster. Your solution is to have him operate the lift from the ground.

If I’m correct in my understanding of the work plan that means that you’re one handing your chainsaw and throwing material to the small drop zone. I would suggest there may be some faster and safer alternative options:

1. Continue to take small pieces but use a zip line to land each piece in your drop zone. Your groundie stages each piece when it comes down which makes for more efficient chipping once the lift is moved.

2. Use a rope, block and port-a-wrap to cut bigger pieces. Less cutting improves efficiency. Your groundie runs the ropes and stages each piece as he lands them which leads to more efficient chipping once the lift is moved.

I have to be honest, anyone throwing material into one big messy pile is not concerned about efficiency. There is nothing efficient about wrestling tangled branches that haven’t been staged properly.
 
Willber said:
Thanks. Lol, I don't know if I could use much space to expand on how cliche, safety is perceived. But, I'll try.
I just see, some think as long as you have a hard hat on you're inherently safer, in one way, yes, that's true.
But, it can make one, more likely to be unaware of sights or sounds that could precede a greater danger than what a hard hat can protect from.

Also, I see so many construction workers wearing hard hats in an environment where it is not necessary, and the non-necessity of it, could cause immunity or "a subtle, sub conscience, learned lack of consequence", to its time and place of necessity. Which translates into other aspects and realms of safety elsewhere.
There is much truth to the old saying, "by beholding one becomes" If people thought of safety with more of a critical mindset, I think it would command more of an awareness that lacks in many people I've seen, in relation to being aware of danger before it occurs.
Click to expand...

B as in B...S as in S!!!

Every line is total rubbish. I'd have to do a line by line deconstruction of what you wrote. There are many more important things in my life that need my attention.

To quote my friend Jeff Jepson, 'Tom...how do you spell futility'
 
HigherGroundArborist said:
I have to be honest, anyone throwing material into one big messy pile is not concerned about efficiency. There is nothing efficient about wrestling tangled branches that haven’t been staged properly.
Click to expand...
Unless you have a grapple truck with a debris body with which you just stuff the box. Just saying.
My number one rule is “thou shalt not cluster fuck thy job site”
I even go as far stacking the brush from the basket as I am cutting and chucking.
 
OasisTree said:
The idea behind safety first, and safety when it doesnt seem necessary is because safety is most effective if it becomes a habit. I see your point. However, if you only wore your helmet when you thought you might need it, what happens when that one time you should have had it on but didnt?

I bucked the safety thing for years. I fought against it because of lack of productivity, chaps were hot, safety glasses got fogged up, etc. But when I realized that I only have 1 body to preserve with all of its faculties, I have a family that needs me, I have employees that have families that needs them, and we need to be able to work into retirement, I realized the short-term inconveniences are very small indeed.

One other thing...if safety is uncomfortable, spend whatever you need to make it work. Many times, just like the hard hat issue you mentioned, if you spend more on a hard hat it will fit better and be more comfortable.

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
I see, where you're coming from. Expense shouldn't impose on one's likelyhood in prevention of injury, I want others/myself to have the most adequate helmet money can buy.
I love your line: "If we did everything that we were capable of we would amaze ourselves!"
 
We are plowing snow in the northeast today and I thought of this thread.

If you were plowing snow would you have your passenger work the remote due to hand fatigue. I'm half making light of this topic. I hope to not piss anyone off.

It made me laugh when this thought came to mind. Btw I have no lift or bucket experience. Only flew a bucket twice. I know nothing.
 
In the future, I shouldn't posts such threads. Honestly, I didn't know I'd get such a rejective response.
I only posted it, in sheer excitement of thinking others may have done similar, and found it interestingly productive.
You know when one immediately agrees with another, out of almost like a camaraderical experience, they had in the past.
Like an instant, fond piece of music to ones ears/mind.

I see most on here think similarly, and maybe I should take a break from engaging on this forum.
 
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Willber said:
In the future, I shouldn't posts such threads. Honestly, I didn't know I'd get such a rejective response.
I only posted it, in sheer excitement of thinking others may have done similar, and found it interestingly productive.
You know when one immediately agrees with another, out of almost like a camaraderical experience, they had in the past.
Like an instant, fond piece of music to ones ears/mind.

I see most on here think similarly, and maybe I should take a break from engaging on this forum.
Click to expand...
Always engage it’s all love I bet even from the dudes who disagreed
 
Willber said:
In the future, I shouldn't posts such threads. Honestly, I didn't know I'd get such a rejective response.
I only posted it, in sheer excitement of thinking others may have done similar, and found it interestingly productive.
You know when one immediately agrees with another, out of almost like a camaraderical experience, they had in the past.
Like an instant, fond piece of music to ones ears/mind.

I see most on here think similarly, and maybe I should take a break from engaging on this forum.
Click to expand...
Always engage it’s all love I bet even from the dudes
 
Will stein said:
We are plowing snow in the northeast today and I thought of this thread.

If you were plowing snow would you have your passenger work the remote due to hand fatigue. I'm half making light of this topic. I hope to not piss anyone off.

It made me laugh when this thought came to mind. Btw I have no lift or bucket experience. Only flew a bucket twice. I know nothing.
Click to expand...
You got snow? All we have here is ice, and not quite enough ice to to make trees fall down, just enough ice to make things look pretty.

My cousin is a truck driver, he spent a month with his wife working the gearshift for him while he worked the pedals and steering wheel. It worked, and he was able to make money, but it wasn’t terribly efficient. He only did it because his right arm was in a sling and he had half a dozen broken ribs from one of his many motorcycle crashes.
 
Willber said:
In the future, I shouldn't posts such threads. Honestly, I didn't know I'd get such a rejective response.
I only posted it, in sheer excitement of thinking others may have done similar, and found it interestingly productive.
You know when one immediately agrees with another, out of almost like a camaraderical experience, they had in the past.
Like an instant, fond piece of music to ones ears/mind.

I see most on here think similarly, and maybe I should take a break from engaging on this forum.
Click to expand...
It's all a learning experience man. I've been following this thread along and here are some of my thoughts

I've run a bucket for 10+ years ( I also climb a ton but regularly fly the bucket) and can safely say that I would never, ever ever let someone else run the controls. Once you become a proficient operator in a lift it's very fast. I can see if you haven't run a lift much where your thought process comes from. I've done plenty of work with a two man crew and I have yet to work in a spot where having the ground man not clear the drop zone of material while working doesn't make sense.

Go get a job with a professional company and work with them for a few years. The knowledge gained will be invaluable for your career.

And wear your PPE, it will save you when you least expect it. Don't argue that it makes you safer- it will save you, and if by some miracle you make it through your entire career without so much as a close call then at least you presented the image of a professional!

Stick around- there is so much information here on the buzz!
 
adolan said:
It's all a learning experience man. I've been following this thread along and here are some of my thoughts

I've run a bucket for 10+ years ( I also climb a ton but regularly fly the bucket) and can safely say that I would never, ever ever let someone else run the controls. Once you become a proficient operator in a lift it's very fast. I can see if you haven't run a lift much where your thought process comes from. I've done plenty of work with a two man crew and I have yet to work in a spot where having the ground man not clear the drop zone of material while working doesn't make sense.

Go get a job with a professional company and work with them for a few years. The knowledge gained will be invaluable for your career.

And wear your PPE, it will save you when you least expect it. Don't argue that it makes you safer- it will save you, and if by some miracle you make it through your entire career without so much as a close call then at least you presented the image of a professional!

Stick around- there is so much information here on the buzz!
Click to expand...
I see where you’re coming from.
Though I’d like to report, that because he was moving me, the branches were being air mailed so frequently into the right drop zone, that if he tried to go and get one or a few, he might get hit.

But, yes, the response will be, if you were operating the lift and cutting, then there would be time for him to collect the branches, and organize them in an adjacent pile.
The problem with that, is clearly the tree would have to be dismantled slower, to allow him to collect. Also, there was wasn’t much space to make an adjacent pile, because of the small driveway and the lift being in the driveway.

The reason for us reducing time, dismantling the trees, was because the lift was rented and we had to return it by 5pm.
 
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Will stein said:
We are plowing snow in the northeast today and I thought of this thread.

If you were plowing snow would you have your passenger work the remote due to hand fatigue. I'm half making light of this topic. I hope to not piss anyone off.

It made me laugh when this thought came to mind. Btw I have no lift or bucket experience. Only flew a bucket twice. I know nothing.
Click to expand...
It’s all good man. I encourage both humorical and serious inquiry.

Would I have a trusted worker operate the lift and angle controls for the plow, when plowing.
Uh, no, that would seem obvious to be too inextricably linked to the momement of the plow truck, to have two physically separate minds performing such a linked task.

It might be good for a sheer competition type engagement.
To compete how two could work together, on a very connected task.
 
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