Hanging from the Ball/Legstrap saddle

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You mean this one?

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That trunk sure is in bad shape. How tall is that tree? It looks like it is way over the power lines and out of reach of most bucket trucks.
 
Well MB looks like now we get to say to you LOW AN SLOW with coming up with a set up for you to use. Sorry man I hope you feel better I use the master II saddle and on long hangs I use some foot straps from some webbing .
 
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The best thing is to lay down and raise your feet slightly with support until you get better

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I'm thinking that may not be the best advice if it's suspension trauma. A horizontal position isn't recommended let alone raising the feet.

From OSHA Suspension Trauma Site:
Be aware that some authorities advise against moving the rescued workers to a horizontal position too quickly.
 
The treatments that I've read all advise a slow release of the stagnant blood in the legs. Keep the person sitting and gradually loosen the leg straps to allow a little bit of 'tainted' blood to mix. Too much will cause the liver and other organs to go into a shock like reaction.
 
I guess it would depend on the the extent of trauma, I was thinking more about being light headed and feeling weak.
Sitting would slow the release of blood which would be better for you in extreme cases although my doctors license has since expired. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Sounds like the same thing they are getting long haul truck drivers to do is get off your rump for awhile to let blood flow again. In our trips up to the ADK area we pull of the main drag in a mid point to stretch and move around. Does not matter how old I do not want to read that you croked do to a blood clot from sitting around or hanging around.
Lay yourself in a kinda lounge chair position is what I do when I have been up in a tree for a long duration, and slowly loosen up the belts and trousers for a period of time.
 
My doc recently recommended that I take an aspirin before flying or if I know I'll be sitting for a long period. I thought this was interesting advice. I have a little chronic swelling in my right ankle and my dad has a history of clots. Maybe this would benefit climbers hanging in a saddle (as long as you don't cut yourself). Or long haul drivers for that matter.

My doc license has expired too so take it as one of those internet tidbits...
 
I heard something simular but It was basically, Keep them in there saddle slowly lowering them to there feet and holding them up then again slowly let them get in to the lying position and then remove the harness.

I think all of these sugeestions above have the same thing in common what ever you do, do it slowly.

And I use a master II saddle with the straps for the buttstrap Completly extend Moving it closer to my knee area. It looks exactly like I was sitting on a chair. Very comfy and The leg starps dont exactly squaze in that position, so No worries.(I could it also be I only wieght 145 lbs.?)
 
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Today I was hanging off the crane hook, fine pruning the squirrel damage out of three big oaks. The lady was being a PITA, demanding that ALL of the tiny dead be removed, or no check. Normally this would be done with a basket but it couldn't be had today, so I was hanging out.

I do believe I came close to experiencing firsthand the effect known as suspension trauma. After 10 minutes I started to feel all weird in my chest and began feeling light-headed, and got back on the ground ASAP. I was also getting numb in both legs, from the straps down. It took 15 minutes for me to feel normal again. Another climber (with a butt-strap saddle) took my place, and had no problem hanging.

This is the 2nd time I've felt this in a legstrap saddle, and I've never felt it in a buttstrap saddle. All's that they've ever done was give me a sore butt.

The Moral of the Story>>> Don't hang off the ball for any extended time in a legstrap saddle, use a bosun-chair styled one instead. Or even better, a basket.

And this thread isn't a debate about hanging off the hook.

This thread is posted at the TH, also.

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Orthostatic intolerance is also called "COMPARTMENTAL SYNDROME" by ER doctors, it can be fatal. As you sit with your legs motionless, with the straps of the harness, the circulation slows or stops to the legs (or elswhere). As the blood stagnates in your legs, it produces massive amounts of lactic acid. Then when you loosen off your straps at the bottom or when shifting positions up high, the acid laden non oxygenated blood surges back into the heart, overwhelming the heart muscles causing cardiac arrest, can also cause renal failure and kidney failure quite quickly. VERY COMMON in the climbing circles, and a major contributer of death in climbing falls where the climber hangs limp in the saddle while rescuers attempt a rescue.

When you feel slowed or stopped circulation or tingling, massage the limb slowly and DO NOT loosen the harness too much. 1 - 2MM at a time is recomended, every 5 minutes so the heart can deal with the sudden increases in lactic acid and stagnant blood. If you have a worker that falls and hangs in his harness for longer than a few minutes (2) immediately call for an ambulance and advise the Dispatcher that you have a patient with "Orthostatic intolerance or compartmental syndrome, due to safety harness restriction". Even if the worker seems fine, it is a good idea to report to the ER for blood tests and heart monitoring.

I did a pick-off of a top rope climber in Squamish, who fell and knocked their head, going unconscious and hanging in the saddle. Legs were purple and blue. my partner on the ground called the ambulance, and advised them of the situation. They told him to have me keep the victim on the cliffs, to secure him and to NOT MOVE him, and to very slowly ease off the leg straps and to keep the legs lower than the torso. When they got there, one SARTECH rappelled down and took heart readings and we both loaded the victim into the stretcher and lowered in down, the patient was kept vertical, even on the drive to hospital.

It is a very serious condition to be aware of.

Good post EXCELLENT TOPIC!!! <font color="yellow"> </font>
 
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My doc recently recommended that I take an aspirin before flying or if I know I'll be sitting for a long period. I thought this was interesting advice.

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its a valid recomendation by your Doc! Aspirin thins the blood. best to tkae it 2 hours before flying or working suspended.
 
further info to this topic: (first link is aimed at cavers, BUT it is VERY applicable to arborists)

http://www.rescueresponse.com/html/news11-01/training.html

and some more:

reprinted from ACA Journal

"Steve Knutson reproduced this same article in the ACA journal that he edited back in Dec. 1993. At the end he referred to another condition called "Crush or Compression Syndrome". Any caver who as been involved with a rescue of someone trapped by falling or collapsed rocks is familiar with this one. The causes here are more obvious as you can easily see that the rock is cutting off flow of blood to the affected limb. The problem then is when that circulation is again restored and that stale blood is able to return to the rest of the body. If careful measures are not taken the patient will then die from the stress of this blood hitting the rest of the body. What has happened while the blood as been pooled in the limb is that the normal exchanges between blood and tissue have not been able to proceed. This causes a change in the chemical balance in the blood and the small quantities of toxins that the blood normal carries away are now much more concentrated.

That is the problem with the blood part, but is not the whole story. The circulation of blood also ensures a balance of watery fluid in the muscles and other cells of the limb. When the blood does not circulate that balance gets out of balances as well, and this watery fluid leaves the cell where it normally lives and flows into the inter-cell areas. This is what causes the swelling seen in these situations. The normal solution for dealing with that problem is to physically cut the affected areas, allowing the fluid to drain, because you don't want that being re-cycled back into the body either.

While the above Compression Syndrome could be evoked on some vertical rope accidents, it is not the same thing. Hanging in a sit harness may, or may not, adversely affect the circulation of blood to the legs by compression, depending on the harness and the particular person. The point is that just the non-movement of the legs is enough to significantly decrease that circulation. Dr. K. Conover gives a good description of this in an article from Jan. 5, 1993, where he notes..."If the legs and arms aren't moving, there is no pumping action, and blood tends to stagnate in the arms and legs. This means that there is less blood return to the heart, and the arms and legs may even get puffy ("edema") from the extra fluid there". He was describing the affects of non movement whilst carrying out a rescue, while the patient is in the stretcher, but the results are the same. Talks with my wife, a Nephrologist, suggest that the edema he is referring to is the result of the watery fluid I mentioned above getting into the inter-cellular spaces. The lessened blood flow to the heart, and then subsequently to the head, is what leads to the faintness discussed in the above article.

Hopefully the above article and accompanying comments have helped to give people a sense of urgency in dealing with problems of people stuck on rope. You have 10 to 20 minutes people. Make sure you know how to use those minutes. If not, you will need to learn about pulleys and will be doing a body recovery.

definitely some different views from medical pros....either way its a serious thing to consider.
 
taking the standing end of your primary and passing it through a biner attached to your hip d and then standing in your foot ascender in combination with a foot loop through biner attached to the opposite hip d worked well for me the other day.
 
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