GRCS Self-Tailer Problem

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Found this pic from 2004 when I was looking for pics for the new website

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Daniel, this is the way that Greg Good showed me to rig a side pull redirect too, so you don't bend the side fairlead as Kevin has mentioned above.

Xman, I'm not saying that your technique is wrong that Ed showed you, with running the rope over the chrome channel near the pinching groove before you go to the pigtail, but when I was talking with Greg Good at the Expo, I showed him the picture that you posted and asked him his opinion.

He said that the rope was not meant to run on the chrome channel that way when lowering. He said that the rope should stay on the drum and run around to the pigtail and the groundman doing the lowering should stand slightly in front and at a slight angle to lower the piece without having it bind. He demonstrates the way that he lowers in his dvd.

X, like I said, I'm not saying that your way is incorrect, I haven't tried it. I don't know if Greg has even tried lowering this way or not. I appreciate other people's opinions and I'm always trying to learn new things.

Thanks,
Chris
 
Standing in front works, sometimes though. Iv'e had it bind up while standing in front before. This was at my old company. we used 5/8 diameter rope. Having The line bind up is serious! It can really make a bad situation!!!
 
Turkey and wine makes a great combination
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Just for discussion, What about making a ballord with slight grooves in it for the wraps?

Of course rope diameter and things come to play but I don't know. seems like a groove may keep the rope in the right place with of course smooth edges.

Iv'e never used more than four wraps before which was more than enough other than filling it up and tieing off.

More wine fo show. Thoughts?
 
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Found this pic from 2004 when I was looking for pics for the new website

[/ QUOTE ]

Daniel, this is the way that Greg Good showed me to rig a side pull redirect too, so you don't bend the side fairlead as Kevin has mentioned above.

Xman, I'm not saying that your technique is wrong that Ed showed you, with running the rope over the chrome channel near the pinching groove before you go to the pigtail, but when I was talking with Greg Good at the Expo, I showed him the picture that you posted and asked him his opinion.

He said that the rope was not meant to run on the chrome channel that way when lowering. He said that the rope should stay on the drum and run around to the pigtail and the groundman doing the lowering should stand slightly in front and at a slight angle to lower the piece without having it bind. He demonstrates the way that he lowers in his dvd.

X, like I said, I'm not saying that your way is incorrect, I haven't tried it. I don't know if Greg has even tried lowering this way or not. I appreciate other people's opinions and I'm always trying to learn new things.

Thanks,
Chris

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Wow! this is interesting. yes, even when standing toward the front, (as all the groundmen do anyway because they are use to the Hobbs finger), the dang thing can bind up and be a real problem.

I guess he doesn't want pressure on that chrome channel. But if you have the right amount of wraps, that last wrap won't have much pressure anyway, right?

Thanks for sharing what you learned. That is kinda disappointing to me though... because there has never been a bind since using that channel.
 
X, like I said, I don't know if Greg has tried your way or not.

When I spoke with him at the Expo, he said it's been awhile since he's posted on TreeBuzz. Maybe he'll see this thread and give some additional info.
 
Chris,

I spoke to Ed again recently.

He said he learned it from his father, because his father sailed big sailboats for a while in his life and all the sailers that used a capstan winch would use that chrome groove when letting out the sail so that the wraps would not bind over each other. Sails can pull with tremendous force so it sounds like.

Is it possible that Greg and most arborist don't know how to properly use the capstan winch when lowering?

If you think about it, most of the force is likely put on the first wrap on the drum, by the time you are in the chrome groove, the force is hardly anything.

I'm not saying he's right, I'm just saying, maybe... And it sounds like this should be researched.
 
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Chris,

I spoke to Ed again recently.

He said he learned it from his father, because his father sailed big sailboats for a while in his life and all the sailers that used a capstan winch would use that chrome groove when letting out the sail so that the wraps would not bind over each other. Sails can pull with tremendous force so it sounds like.

Is it possible that Greg and most arborist don't know how to properly use the capstan winch when lowering?

If you think about it, most of the force is likely put on the first wrap on the drum, by the time you are in the chrome groove, the force is hardly anything.

I'm not saying he's right, I'm just saying, maybe... And it sounds like this should be researched.

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X, I couldn't agree with you more, and it certainly sounds like it should be researched more.

Thanks for telling us about this, I really appreciate it. Very, very interesting.
 
I've experienced the same problem with the GRCS others have mentioned here. It can get pretty hairy when you've got a suspended load and ropes start wrapping over each other. Almost watched a groundman destroy his hand trying to physically uncross the ropes while under load.

Definitely be interesting to see what you guys find out.

jp
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is there a way to mentally or spiritually used unfoul the grcs? cause i haven't seen that part in the dvd or read it in the manual. i can see it now: greg good in long brown robes saying "use the force jp; use the force......" in a mystical tone.....
 
This is a really interesting thread. I'd like to see a vid of the spring replacement. How often has anyone replaced these? Assuming the GRCS is used in special situations only, mostly for winching up and not as a lowering device on a daily basis.
 
I've always considered putting a prussik inline and tying it off so that I could undo the wraps and have the load not drop if it got messed up like that... or maybe a rope ratchet come along to get the slack out...either way your in a bad predicament. As for the spring clamp.. not too hard to change Mine cracked from a wet rope freezing to it... Cold North Dakota wind ,river bed and a serious temp drop in about 20 minutes... had to coil the 3/4 rope around my legs once the job was done because it was frozen so bad
 
Yeah, I've rigged up a prussik MA system in order to get the wraps undone before. It's not fun, but it worked.

Best not to get it messed up to begin with, but it happens.
 
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Best not to get it messed up to begin with, but it happens.

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not if you use the chrome groove.
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on Friday, last week, we had that thing cranked as tight as ever working on a 45 degree tree getting it to move sideways.

had to loosen it up to put in more blocks to add more mechanical advantage. I used the chrome groove to loosen, because i didn't want a chance of it locking up.

put in the extra blocks and pulled that thing sideways.

video coming soon; (that means in the next 3 years).
 
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video coming soon; (that means in the next 3 years).

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X, that would be great if you could get it on video someday. Like I said, I like what you're saying about the chrome groove and would love to see it in action.

I won't be rigging anything until I get the elbow healed up, hopefully by the end of spring.
 
Chris and Treeand Surf I pulled the trigger after talking with you guys I got the GRCS, Model 48 not the 46!!
I would love to hear some more discussion on the rope getting tangle up on the drum. I just got my GRCS a couple of days ago and have been using in it and practicing on non critical trees. We have been use ½ Samson stable and tried one of our bigger lines as well. At times we have had the winch lock up. I spoke to Greg the other day and he said to keep the rope on a angle on the pig tail. Sometimes this works and other times does not. One of the guys also tried Standing in front on the GRCS going through the pig tail and it still bound up. One thing one of the guys also noticed while we were practicing was that there was a little slack in the line the ground man was holding when it started to get tangle up while in front of the device. Like I said we just started to experiment with this machine and would love to hear what everyone’s experience and tricks are!
Thanks IAN
 
Congrats on the purchase IAN, you're stoked.

A lot of the problems I encountered with the lines wrapping I found were caused from bending the fairleads that causes the rope to lead fair into the bollard.

Used the GRCS for several years; recently bought a HOBBS and I'm stoked. Not to take anything away from the GRCS, it's a great device but for our uses the HOBBS was the better choice.

jp
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Way to go Ian, you guys will love the GRCS.

I think the issue that we had with the rope not self-tailering properly was a combination of too large a line being used and and not paying attention to the angle that the line was coming off at the self-tailer.

All we used last year was a 9/16" db and watched closely as we cranked on the winch and we didn't have one problem with lines tangling.
 
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