gonna get a rope wrench but i have questions!

[JeffGu]

A longer hitch cord won't have any more rope contact/friction unless you're adding more wraps to the hitch, so stick with your 28" cord. That's all I use, anymore, is 26" or 28" ones. I've had no glazing issues, but I don't make a habit of fast descents. I prefer a short, compact hitch... usually a Distel hitch, because it's so damned consistent and at most takes a few seconds to readjust for a different rope or conditions. Almost always, all I change is which side of the rope/hitch I bring the eyes out on... I try it without bringing the eyes around to the other side of the rope, and if it isn't grabbing well, I bring them around the rope and that's almost always the trick that fixes it.

Myself and others have figured out that the RW actually carries more than half the load/friction... about 60% or so, depending on the rope/cord... so the hitch itself is actually not seeing as much as it would in a DdRT setup, most of the time. I have stumbled upon combinations where the hitch did carry too much, and it was immediately obvious because it wanted to lock up too easily. I just don't use those combinations of rope and cord. For any rope, there always seems to be at least one cord I have that will work fine. In fact, really, I'm always surprised at how hard it is to find one that doesn't work.

 

[SomethingWitty]

I use a 9.3 28" Epicord e2e and the only glazing I have in 6mo use was last week, I went for a big jump and my saw came out of the Transporter (lanyard got caught in the gate and it didn't close) and got caught in the crotch, so I got about 5-6ft, how ever long a lanyard is out stretched, -and came to a sudden halt. Glazed up a bit then, other wise no issues, and I've ran the hitch cord hard trying to see what I can get out of it. Coming out fast and such.

230 or so with saddle, gear and a 201

Just wanted to say "point for the shembiner"

 

[GreenMntnBoy410]

@JeffGu Interesting stuff. Coming from just climbing ddrt a lot of aspects of SRT mystify me. I imagined more friction and weight being transferred to the hitch since it's now all on one line. And in my mind, a longer cord with more wraps, would handle that weight/friction load better. Have a lot to learn about SRT, thanks for your insight.

 

[JustinK]

Just wanted to say "point for the shembiner"

I had (have in my truck) one. I found a way, twice, for the saw to come off. I'm destructive. I can test the shit out of something. Break an anvil with a rubber mallet.

48/50 times I always make sure the gate is closed and locked for any reasonable movement while aloft. That time I didn't. I connect the lanyard via ball lock Petzl Am'd through the textile loop portion of the lanyard and hang it by the biner on the transporter.

The shembiner, I would use the ring on the lanyard.


Sorry for the derail.

Back to hitches, a distel or Micho via 9.3 Epi, 10mm OP, or 10mmAP should serve you well in the length of your choice. I've never tried the OP so I really can't personally vouch.

 

[CutHighnLetFly]

@JeffGu Interesting stuff. Coming from just climbing ddrt a lot of aspects of SRT mystify me. I imagined more friction and weight being transferred to the hitch since it's now all on one line. And in my mind, a longer cord with more wraps, would handle that weight/friction load better. Have a lot to learn about SRT, thanks for your insight.

Two things: if you can ever get yourself to an SRT training course that get hosted every year (keep your eyes peeled on here for an announcement for it some spring), then do it cause they're always real good.
Second, when have a wrench, put it in the rope, hike it up above your head, then kinda hang on the tether with your hands. You'll feel how much friction the wrench is creating.
Or coax someone into a rec climb. I'm on cape cod which is a bit of a haul, but if your ever coming down this way or ever wanna do a rec climb down here with me, I got some fun local trees we can play SRT in. It's nice to think of and try new stuff without the pressures of being on the job

 

[TimBr]

A longer hitch cord won't have any more rope contact/friction unless you're adding more wraps to the hitch, so stick with your 28" cord. That's all I use, anymore, is 26" or 28" ones. I've had no glazing issues, but I don't make a habit of fast descents. I prefer a short, compact hitch... usually a Distel hitch, because it's so damned consistent and at most takes a few seconds to readjust for a different rope or conditions. Almost always, all I change is which side of the rope/hitch I bring the eyes out on... I try it without bringing the eyes around to the other side of the rope, and if it isn't grabbing well, I bring them around the rope and that's almost always the trick that fixes it.

Myself and others have figured out that the RW actually carries more than half the load/friction... about 60% or so, depending on the rope/cord... so the hitch itself is actually not seeing as much as it would in a DdRT setup, most of the time. I have stumbled upon combinations where the hitch did carry too much, and it was immediately obvious because it wanted to lock up too easily. I just don't use those combinations of rope and cord. For any rope, there always seems to be at least one cord I have that will work fine. In fact, really, I'm always surprised at how hard it is to find one that doesn't work.

Great post, JeffGu. A lot of good stuff in there, especially the part about the Wrench taking 60% of the load, which is something I had not read before. The subtle adjustments to the hitch, too. I still only have the original ZK-1 Rope Wrench.

Your comments make me wonder if there's a big difference between the original ZK-1 Rope Wrench and the newer ZK-2 Rope Wrench with the pulley wheel incorporated into it, as far as how much weight the Rope Wrench removes from the hitch is concerned.

Thanks for your post.

Tim

 

[96coal449]

I am also new to SRT and because of that I stick to my comfort zone of Ddrt on site. When I get time and ambition I step out into the backyard and hang-out with a couple of 60' red oaks. No pressure this way and I can comfortably play with new gear. Good point @CutHighnLetFly

 

[Brocky]

@JeffGu is this what you were referring to with the Distel Hitch?

Correction: correct spelling is Distal, the bottom pic is from a 2002 Sherrill catalog( no tree at that time)
Correction to my correction: the correct spelling is Distel(stand by for further corrections)

 

[Tree worker9]

I like the distal 5 over 1 (10mm yale silverstreak cool prusik cord, 28in. long, I make the eye to eye myself, l find its more practical). I climb on Yale Poison Ivy 11.7 tropical rope with hitch climber pulley and rope wrench setup,(12in. 4srt tether and 4srt chester) it works like a dream. Slides up really smooth and grabs securely on decent. I found the V.T. only biting when it felt like it.
Question, does anyone tie the alpine butterfly knot hand wrap style putting an anchor ring (dmm 40mm) on one of the loops in the palm of the hand , finish tying the knot and "voilà" the anchor ring is on the alpine butterfly ready for a canopy anchor. The reason I ask is l have never seen it demonstrated this way on u tube, only the twist method and a version of Richard Mumfords hand wrap style where he puts the ring on after he competes the alpine butterfly knot with some more additional tying. I found it a bit bulky.
Looking forward to hearing from you all.

 

[WaitakKauri]

[snip]
Your comments make me wonder if there's a big difference between the original ZK-1 Rope Wrench and the newer ZK-2 Rope Wrench with the pulley wheel incorporated into it, as far as how much weight the Rope Wrench removes from the hitch is concerned.

Thanks for your post.

Tim

Tim, I've recently'ish added a RW zk-2 to my gear.

On the same 11mm rope, zk2 introduced a ltiile less friction for me than the zk1 with the bottom bollard fully open. I can't measure this so it's still subjective; I don't perceive any noticeable extra hitch wear.

I like the zk2 better for its size and the ability for the tether (with spring) to help it auto set. The zk1 still gets used too, just less or with others.

Taking a break from the michoacan and am liking the knut.

 

[WaitakKauri]

My current RW setup with best swingdude pose. Lots of things mentioned from this thread and from the TB in my setup. I couldn't have gotten my setup so nicely dialed without people sharing their climb systems.

Really happy with the chest harness. Just webbing in a figure 8 shape though there's no cross where I've placed a Mtn bike tube connector which has a little give to it. I've added a clip and length adjuster but once set I haven't changed it. The red Beal corner trap keeps the biner correctly located. Biner needs a non slotted nose so it's easy on/off the RW tether.

If I keep tied hitches (likely), I'll move to the Petzl William with ball. It'd be a little nicer on/off.

 

[JeffGu]

is this what you were referring to with the Distel Hitch?

Yes, it is! The eyes can be attached on either side of the rope (depending on which side, relative to the pulley/RW, that you tie it, you might have to spin the hitch around) and the friction changes... more if you go around the rope, less if you don't. Usually, you don't have to retie the hitch, because it works just right one way or the other.

 

[JeffGu]

...correct spelling is Distal...

The correct spelling of the word distal, meaning the opposite of proximal is with an "a"... the hitch was named after the person who improved on an earlier hitch to "invent" the Distel Hitch. Distel is a fairly common surname.

 

[Brocky]

Thanks Jeff for the correct spelling. I should have read the fine print!

Thanks also for the info on the functioning differences of the two Distel orientations.

 

[TimBr]

I like the distal 5 over 1 (10mm yale silverstreak cool prusik cord, 28in. long, I make the eye to eye myself, l find its more practical). I climb on Yale Poison Ivy 11.7 tropical rope with hitch climber pulley and rope wrench setup,(12in. 4srt tether and 4srt chester) it works like a dream. Slides up really smooth and grabs securely on decent. I found the V.T. only biting when it felt like it.
Question, does anyone tie the alpine butterfly knot hand wrap style putting an anchor ring (dmm 40mm) on one of the loops in the palm of the hand , finish tying the knot and "voilà" the anchor ring is on the alpine butterfly ready for a canopy anchor. The reason I ask is l have never seen it demonstrated this way on u tube, only the twist method and a version of Richard Mumfords hand wrap style where he puts the ring on after he competes the alpine butterfly knot with some more additional tying. I found it a bit bulky.
Looking forward to hearing from you all.

Hey, Tree worker9! Amazing first post! Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum! Adding to the knowledge base with your very first post is no small feat. Keep on posting, brother.

Tim

 

[TimBr]

Tim, I've recently'ish added a RW zk-2 to my gear.

On the same 11mm rope, zk2 introduced a ltiile less friction for me than the zk1 with the bottom bollard fully open. I can't measure this so it's still subjective; I don't perceive any noticeable extra hitch wear.

I like the zk2 better for its size and the ability for the tether (with spring) to help it auto set. The zk1 still gets used too, just less or with others.

Taking a break from the michoacan and am liking the knut.

Hey, WaitakKauri! Thanks for this answer; just what I wanted to know. Much appreciated.

Tim

 

[CutHighnLetFly]

I like the distal 5 over 1 (10mm yale silverstreak cool prusik cord, 28in. long, I make the eye to eye myself, l find its more practical). I climb on Yale Poison Ivy 11.7 tropical rope with hitch climber pulley and rope wrench setup,(12in. 4srt tether and 4srt chester) it works like a dream. Slides up really smooth and grabs securely on decent. I found the V.T. only biting when it felt like it.
Question, does anyone tie the alpine butterfly knot hand wrap style putting an anchor ring (dmm 40mm) on one of the loops in the palm of the hand , finish tying the knot and "voilà" the anchor ring is on the alpine butterfly ready for a canopy anchor. The reason I ask is l have never seen it demonstrated this way on u tube, only the twist method and a version of Richard Mumfords hand wrap style where he puts the ring on after he competes the alpine butterfly knot with some more additional tying. I found it a bit bulky.
Looking forward to hearing from you all.

I worked with a guy who did that, it was.really neat. I'll play around and get back to you about how to do that if I can figure it out again.

 

[CutHighnLetFly]

Referring to the butterfly knot with the ring

 

[JeffGu]

I know that an alpine butterfly isn't a great idea with rigging ropes and pulling trees over. Spent three days, on and off, trying to get one out of 5/8" nylon rubberband rope and finally gave up and cut it out. That rope was too long for what I use it for, anyway... now I have two of them.

 

[SomethingWitty]

I know that an alpine butterfly isn't a great idea with rigging ropes and pulling trees over. Spent three days, on and off, trying to get one out of 5/8" nylon rubberband rope and finally gave up and cut it out. That rope was too long for what I use it for, anyway... now I have two of them.

You mean "inspiring lean".
We don't often actually pull them over, and it sounds more like best practices...

And yeah. That is a bowline job. I found out the same way.