Fu*%face Von Clownstick

[Njdelaney]

To be CLEAR, you wouldn't be "voting for gay marriage". You would be voting for the idea that you actually believe in freedom. You believe that someone who has different views than you has the right and the freedom to practice those views without persecution. You can be against gay marriage and still vote for it to be legal. So now that things are clear, would you vote for it to be legal even though you're against it?

 

[climbhightree]

"Somewhat friends" is disingenuous, dishonest and phony. What is that? Disdain with a thin veneer of fake friendliness to facilitate the making of money. How would making a cake for someone be forcing anything on you any more than doing their tree work? I am guessing because it involves marriage. What if this gay couple said they wanted their trees pruned because they were having the wedding there and getting married under the trees you pruned? How about making a birthday cake for a gay person? Refusing service to someone on these grounds is discrimination plain and simple. Just because you attach " religious liberties " to it doesnt give a pass to violate the law. What is religious liberties anyway? Seems like its being used as a pass to do things that are not lawful or not decent. What would Jesus do? would he resfuse service to someone because they were sinners? Didnt he wash the feet of a sinner. For that matter how do you provide service to anyone after all everyone is a sinner in your view.

Birthday cake, I'd have no problem making that for them. A wedding cake is a different level due to the marriage ceremony aspect. As to the tree's above their wedding, I would honestly have to think about it. I feel it is somewhat different though. Unlike a cake it isn't for a one time benifit/enjoyment.

Would you build a shed/house that you knew without a shadow of doubt was going to be used for evil purposes? I'd hope you wouldn't. For me making a wedding cake would be along the same lines (though probably less extreme).

We are all sinners, including myself. The difference is I try to recognize my sin and not continually live in it. I understand gay marriage is socially acceptable now, but that doesn't mean I have to morally except it too.

To provide a service for someone isn't always an acceptance of someone or of their personal life. A wedding cake is different as I explained before.

 

[climbhightree]

They have changed biologically. They have all the proper parts you consider male and female parts.
The fact they can't produce babies has no bearing. I can't have children. Does that make me a non-male?

No they don't give them tubes, womb, fully functional penis etc. So they aren't the proper parts. They haven't changed their genes xx, xy. If they are dug up in the future they will be identified as their birth sex

 

[Arb23]

Whenever people complain about American beer, I like to remind them it's a big country with a lot more than Bud or Pabst, hell, Washington state has 426 breweries alone!

Couldn't agree more. Some great beers to be sure! The mass market ones are what I was referring to. Was in WA a few weeks ago and got to try some the local brews and was not disappointed!

A bigger, fatter can doesn't make for a better beer(looking at you Fosters) although in my opinion it makes for a better wife. Again though, that's just my opinion.

Haha - well, truth be told, Fosters is the 'export' beer we send overseas lol. I used to love Victoria Bitter, but sadly cant get that anywhere I know of in the US. No comment on the 'wife' strategy lol...

 

[rico]

Um...voting for or not voting for issues you care about is the most American thing. To label someone 'un-American' because they have a differing belief system is about as un-American as it gets. But it's pretty standard fare these days.

Democracy (what's left of it) isn't everyone must agree with your world view. Thankfully.

No, it's called discrimination plain and simple. But instead of being based on the color of someones skin its based on sexual preference. I can't help but wonder how you would feel if it was pointed in your direction?

 

[owScott]

I agree best not to drag that all up again.

I maintain I'm being pretty consistent...protect the children and the innocent in and out of the womb from being killed, maimed, or wrongly influenced into life altering physical actions via our schools, social media, doctors that just want the money, society and businesses pushing it

Birthday cake, I'd have no problem making that for them. A wedding cake is a different level due to the marriage ceremony aspect. As to the tree's above their wedding, I would honestly have to think about it. I feel it is somewhat different though. Unlike a cake it isn't for a one time benifit/enjoyment.

Would you build a shed/house that you knew without a shadow of doubt was going to be used for evil purposes? I'd hope you wouldn't. For me making a wedding cake would be along the same lines (though probably less extreme).

We are all sinners, including myself. The difference is I try to recognize my sin and not continually live in it. I understand gay marriage is socially acceptable now, but that doesn't mean I have to morally except it too.

To provide a service for someone isn't always an acceptance of someone or of their personal life. A wedding cake is different as I explained before.

This is reasonable response from your view point, disagree but can accept it. I guess we have a different view of evil. I too try and acknowledge my short comings and work on changing them. Curious on your view of assualt weapons. After all many children died at Sandy hook as a result of these weapons. Placing sole blame on the individual is dishonest. You did say protect children and the innocent out of the womb.

 

[Arb23]

No, it's called discrimination plain and simple. But instead of being based on the color of someones skin its based on sexual preference. I can't help but wonder how you would feel if it was pointed in your direction?

No need to wonder. I'd be very mad if someone took away my ability to vote for an issue or candidate that I support. Hmmm...

 

[evo]

Birthday cake, I'd have no problem making that for them. A wedding cake is a different level due to the marriage ceremony aspect. As to the tree's above their wedding, I would honestly have to think about it. I feel it is somewhat different though. Unlike a cake it isn't for a one time benifit/enjoyment.

Would you build a shed/house that you knew without a shadow of doubt was going to be used for evil purposes? I'd hope you wouldn't. For me making a wedding cake would be along the same lines (though probably less extreme).

We are all sinners, including myself. The difference is I try to recognize my sin and not continually live in it. I understand gay marriage is socially acceptable now, but that doesn't mean I have to morally except it too.

To provide a service for someone isn't always an acceptance of someone or of their personal life. A wedding cake is different as I explained before.

Can you explain how being gay is evil? We are not talking about building a shed where cute little animals are dismembered alive. Nor a gas chamber.. Its simply baking a cake for someone that is getting married consensually

 

[owScott]

Birthday cake, I'd have no problem making that for them. A wedding cake is a different level due to the marriage ceremony aspect. As to the tree's above their wedding, I would honestly have to think about it. I feel it is somewhat different though. Unlike a cake it isn't for a one time benifit/enjoyment.

Would you build a shed/house that you knew without a shadow of doubt was going to be used for evil purposes? I'd hope you wouldn't. For me making a wedding cake would be along the same lines (though probably less extreme).

We are all sinners, including myself. The difference is I try to recognize my sin and not continually live in it. I understand gay marriage is socially acceptable now, but that doesn't mean I have to morally except it too.

To provide a service for someone isn't always an acceptance of someone or of their personal life. A wedding cake is different as I explained before.

How would you feel if someone refused you a service because you were a christian?

 

[owScott]

No need to wonder. I'd be very mad if someone took away my ability to vote for an issue or candidate that I support. Hmmm...

I dont think that was the context of Rico's question. More along the line of what if you went into a resturant and they said sorry no service for you based on a personal trait of yours. Say skin color, hair style, cloths etc

 

[climbhightree]

How would you feel if someone refused you a service because you were a christian?

I would be ok with that, 100% honest. I would then go shop somewhere else and tell my like minded friends that they may want to do the same.

So if a Buddhist baker rufed to make me a cake with Jesus's cross on it, I would just move on. I wouldn't be suing him or forcing him to make something (for something) against his beliefs. If I asked him to make me a dozen cupcakes (no special decorations) that is different...but if he still refused so what I'd move on to next shop.

 

[Arb23]

I dont think that was the context of Rico's question. More along the line of what if you went into a resturant and they said sorry no service for you based on a personal trait of yours. Say skin color, hair style, cloths etc

I understood the context. He's saying it's discrimination (and un-American even!) if someone votes a certain way on an issue that others may have an opposing view. It's not. It's called voting and it's a core part of our democracy. You can call the law / or bill or whatever's being voted on discriminatory, and it may in fact be, but the act of voting on it is decidedly not. Our country has a long history overturning or repealing / changing laws that are viewed as discriminatory today that may not have been 100 years ago. Such is society.

 

[rico]

No need to wonder. I'd be very mad if someone took away my ability to vote for an issue or candidate that I support. Hmmm...

So as long as discrimination doesn't effect you, your ok..Got it.

 

[Arb23]

So as long as discrimination doesn't effect you, your ok..Got it.

Discrimination affects everyone, including me, to varying degrees. The world is an imperfect place and people / laws are not perfect.

 

[Arb23]

We really need to get back to and focus on why the senile moron from Delaware is arresting his political opponents on "trumped up" charges. This little side show on abortion, gays, cakes, and guns are not doing it for me. FOCUS people!

 

[owScott]

I understood the context. He's saying it's discrimination (and un-American even!) if someone votes a certain way on an issue that others may have an opposing view. It's not. It's called voting and it's a core part of our democracy. You can call the law / or bill or whatever's being voted on discriminatory, and it may in fact be, but the act of voting on it is decidedly not. Our country has a long history overturning or repealing / changing laws that are viewed as discriminatory today that may not have been 100 years ago. Such is society.

Here is my read. It is about the defination freedom. Freedom is being allowed to do what you want if it doesnt affect others directly. Something percieved in your mind doesnt count. . Voting to not allow other people to engage in actions that dont effect others is unamerican. Example my burning the flag example.

 

[owScott]

We really need to get back to and focus on why the senile moron from Delaware is arresting his political opponents on "trumped up" charges. This little side show on abortion, gays, cakes, and guns are not doing it for me. FOCUS people!

And you make this assumption based on what? Our legal system requires a trail with evidence and arguements from boths sides. You seems to completely abandon this when it suits your political narrative.

 

[Arb23]

And you make this assumption based on what? Our legal system requires a trail with evidence and arguements from boths sides. You seems to completely abandon this when it suits your political narrative.

Yeah. Sure. Ok.

 

[owScott]

I would be ok with that, 100% honest. I would then go shop somewhere else and tell my like minded friends that they may want to do the same.

So if a Buddhist baker rufed to make me a cake with Jesus's cross on it, I would just move on. I wouldn't be suing him or forcing him to make something (for something) against his beliefs. If I asked him to make me a dozen cupcakes (no special decorations) that is different...but if he still refused so what I'd move on to next shop.

Honestly I would do the same, my time is too valuable. However I would support these people s rights to stand up for themselves because I am not in their shoes.

 

[Arb23]

Voting to not allow other people to engage in actions that dont effect others is unamerican. Example my burning the flag example.

How so? We (our representatives to be more precise) often vote on things that restrict the actions of others. Laws are mostly to prevent people from doing things under penalty of arrest, imprisonment or death.