Footlockin scare!!!
- Thread starter FlashTreetop1
- Start date
- Location
- Bloomington, Indiana
[ QUOTE ]
I have to admit: I use Kongs, and I do NOT back up. Not smart on my part, and I feel uneasy when I footlock up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Remember the attached photo?
And this:
http://www.isa-arboriculture.org/content/cm000181.htm
I have to admit: I use Kongs, and I do NOT back up. Not smart on my part, and I feel uneasy when I footlock up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Remember the attached photo?
And this:
http://www.isa-arboriculture.org/content/cm000181.htm
Attachments
Riggs
Participating member
- Location
- Bryn Mawr , Pa.
"My hands were cramping from holding onto the rope so tight, and it took me about ten minutes to settle down."
I don't wanna be rude , I know people take me wrong , but I have just one question for ya . Why were your hands cramping ? Were you holding on with your hands or your feet , again don't take me wrong , I'm just asking . Was it a late climb in the day , were you tired ? Knot fails , feet fail , than the hands thats it , going for a ride.
"it's why they make ascenders, so you don't have to use a cord. The cord should be a back up only. In this time and age it makes no sence to footlock with just a prusik cord."
I disagree , don't blame the knot , blame the person who tied the knot . If you can't do a on line rest you shouldn't footlock , it's that simple .
I don't wanna be rude , I know people take me wrong , but I have just one question for ya . Why were your hands cramping ? Were you holding on with your hands or your feet , again don't take me wrong , I'm just asking . Was it a late climb in the day , were you tired ? Knot fails , feet fail , than the hands thats it , going for a ride.
"it's why they make ascenders, so you don't have to use a cord. The cord should be a back up only. In this time and age it makes no sence to footlock with just a prusik cord."
I disagree , don't blame the knot , blame the person who tied the knot . If you can't do a on line rest you shouldn't footlock , it's that simple .
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
good point Tom. The idea being not to have it so short as to be able to grab above the hitch in a panic. But, yes, if I were unable to FT up to release the hitch I'd be begging for some help.
Once I'm in a positive cashflow I'll have to get some new ascending toys.
Once I'm in a positive cashflow I'll have to get some new ascending toys.
- Location
- tulsa oklahoma
Hey riggs did u just join in on this, or read all of the other post and rest of my first post. I was working on about a 50-60 ft. ascension. I stopped to take a break at 35-40, and decided to just stop there and trim my way up. It was a pecan which is a wide open tree. I was hangin out in the middle of nowhere( about 8-10 ft from anywhere on the tree.) When the knot didnt grab. I had to get my rope swinging a bit in order to get ahold of the tree, this took a bit. Then I had to lanyard in one handed. Probably the scare of the knot not grabbing, caused me to white knuckle my rope, not to mention the length of time it took to get over to the tree.
And Riggs I always check my knot and do a sit test, I just took it for granted, and was taught otherwise by a near accident. Thanks
Derrick Hulsey
And Riggs I always check my knot and do a sit test, I just took it for granted, and was taught otherwise by a near accident. Thanks
Derrick Hulsey
Riggs
Participating member
- Location
- Bryn Mawr , Pa.
I bet that if you let go , and you were that high up , the knot would have grabbed. You always check your knot and do a sit test , but the knot still failed ? Than I'm going with operator error here . You could have held a bite and fixed your knot , if you can do it five feet in the air you can do it fifty .
Back in the early 90's B. Weber was doing traing around the world . He needed a couple crash dummies to free fall on the prussics , Whad up ? So me and my buddy volunteered . ( we had a couple screws loose)We would footlock up forty feet with a four wrap prussic and just let go , tied it loose tied it tight some falls were longer than others , but they all eventually grabbed. My point is , I wasn't there when your knot"failed" but I don't care how you tied it I'd bet at that distance if you let go it would have grabbed , it be a cluster knot , but it would grab . You would be fallen so fast the knot would not be able to catch up with you , try it . I mean trust it .
Back in the early 90's B. Weber was doing traing around the world . He needed a couple crash dummies to free fall on the prussics , Whad up ? So me and my buddy volunteered . ( we had a couple screws loose)We would footlock up forty feet with a four wrap prussic and just let go , tied it loose tied it tight some falls were longer than others , but they all eventually grabbed. My point is , I wasn't there when your knot"failed" but I don't care how you tied it I'd bet at that distance if you let go it would have grabbed , it be a cluster knot , but it would grab . You would be fallen so fast the knot would not be able to catch up with you , try it . I mean trust it .
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Same exact thing happened to me, been using a three wrap prussic ever since... pretty exciting eh?
- Location
- Bay Area, California
[ QUOTE ]
I bet that if you let go , and you were that high up , the knot would have grabbed. You always check your knot and do a sit test , but the knot still failed ? Than I'm going with operator error here . You could have held a bite and fixed your knot , if you can do it five feet in the air you can do it fifty .
Back in the early 90's B. Weber was doing traing around the world . He needed a couple crash dummies to free fall on the prussics , Whad up ? So me and my buddy volunteered . ( we had a couple screws loose)We would footlock up forty feet with a four wrap prussic and just let go , tied it loose tied it tight some falls were longer than others , but they all eventually grabbed. My point is , I wasn't there when your knot"failed" but I don't care how you tied it I'd bet at that distance if you let go it would have grabbed , it be a cluster knot , but it would grab . You would be fallen so fast the knot would not be able to catch up with you , try it . I mean trust it .
[/ QUOTE ]
You would actually bet if he let go the knot would have held? Bad advice there. You should edit that post and remove that line.
I watched my close friend climb above his TIP with a VT once. The knot splayed open, he went back to sit on it, and he fell to the ground, 20' below. You should not assume it will ever catch. At least if you do not have plans to go home in once piece.
That is a very bad bet.
I bet that if you let go , and you were that high up , the knot would have grabbed. You always check your knot and do a sit test , but the knot still failed ? Than I'm going with operator error here . You could have held a bite and fixed your knot , if you can do it five feet in the air you can do it fifty .
Back in the early 90's B. Weber was doing traing around the world . He needed a couple crash dummies to free fall on the prussics , Whad up ? So me and my buddy volunteered . ( we had a couple screws loose)We would footlock up forty feet with a four wrap prussic and just let go , tied it loose tied it tight some falls were longer than others , but they all eventually grabbed. My point is , I wasn't there when your knot"failed" but I don't care how you tied it I'd bet at that distance if you let go it would have grabbed , it be a cluster knot , but it would grab . You would be fallen so fast the knot would not be able to catch up with you , try it . I mean trust it .
[/ QUOTE ]
You would actually bet if he let go the knot would have held? Bad advice there. You should edit that post and remove that line.
I watched my close friend climb above his TIP with a VT once. The knot splayed open, he went back to sit on it, and he fell to the ground, 20' below. You should not assume it will ever catch. At least if you do not have plans to go home in once piece.
That is a very bad bet.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
I've been standing 6' up before with a loose VT and jumped to see if it would grab, it didn't. Maybe the Klem would've grabbed but when it happened to me it showed no inclination to tighten up with weight and friction.
So far I've not had a 3-wrap prussic slip... at all, and it's not that much slower to tie. I use tautlines to backup my ascenders and test them every so often. I've never had them slip either.
So far I've not had a 3-wrap prussic slip... at all, and it's not that much slower to tie. I use tautlines to backup my ascenders and test them every so often. I've never had them slip either.
- Location
- St. Paul MN
I've also had a similar situation. I was locked in with my feet but also got tired in the hand because you have to hold yourself upright. I set the knot on the ground but it did not hold when I got to my entrance point. It was a K. on doubled rope KMIII.
Pierce
Pierce
- Location
- tulsa oklahoma
RIGGS, RU RETARDED!!! If I am workin and my knot doesnt grab, I am not just gonna trust that it will. That is the dumbest, and possibly the stupidest [bad word] I have ever heard!!! Whether it was operator error or not, whatever. But when my knot doesnt grab, I am gonna get ahold of the tree every time, not relax and trust my knot to hold. DUMB,DUMB,DUMB.
My wife is 8 and a half mos. preg. and it has just brought on a new meaning to being extra careful. I dont do alot of the stuff I used to. So no, I will not trust a knot that slips.
Derrick Hulsey
My wife is 8 and a half mos. preg. and it has just brought on a new meaning to being extra careful. I dont do alot of the stuff I used to. So no, I will not trust a knot that slips.
Derrick Hulsey
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
Flash can you do an online rest when footlocking?IT seems that if you could then if your knot did not catch you could take an online rest and fix your knot.I think Riggs point is the knot will catch eventually,but the hard part is trusting that.I wouldnt either i would grab the rope get a good bight with my feet and then adjust my knot.Mtc I agree Ive had a VT not catch also but Riggs was referring to a 6 coil or 4 prusik.I would like to see some dummys test the scenario,I would bet because of the constricting charateristics of the knot it would stop eventually.Probably wouldnt be pleasant though.
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
Ive been thinking about this a little more and I think I had a scare like that once or twice.Now I try not to stop until I reach the top or to where I can transfer to Dbrt.But In the case I need to rest I get a really good lock and set the knot with my hand then I put weight on it and release my lock.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FlashTreetop1 wrote: Anybody ever have a kleimheist not grab when you sat your weight into it!? Yesterday day I had a pretty good scare in a big pecan where it did not grab
[/ QUOTE ]
After stopping did you reach up and redress the knot?
[/ QUOTE ]Here's the thing about re-dressing and setting the knot. If your prussic cord is setup for comps, it's out of reach when you put weight on it. You can't simultaneously dress the knot and weight it so it will set... never mind that you're a wee bit dis-concerted that it didn't grab in the first place... and tired. Solution is simple, bag the Kleimheist for life support, a three wrap prussic is solid. The Klem works great for spider legs.
[ QUOTE ]
FlashTreetop1 wrote: Anybody ever have a kleimheist not grab when you sat your weight into it!? Yesterday day I had a pretty good scare in a big pecan where it did not grab
[/ QUOTE ]
After stopping did you reach up and redress the knot?
[/ QUOTE ]Here's the thing about re-dressing and setting the knot. If your prussic cord is setup for comps, it's out of reach when you put weight on it. You can't simultaneously dress the knot and weight it so it will set... never mind that you're a wee bit dis-concerted that it didn't grab in the first place... and tired. Solution is simple, bag the Kleimheist for life support, a three wrap prussic is solid. The Klem works great for spider legs.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Through this thread there is lots of great discussion. The merits of one knot or another have been discussed too.
There are so many variables in our systems. Trying to isolate the effect of changing one variable is difficult. Doing a dissection of an event like this is coffee table talk. We can all speculate but we'll never know what happened.
During any ascent we should be considering backups/dual attachments and other safety measures. Adding these pieces is so easy. Redundancy is used in almost any other risky/hazardous system.
If you're going to ascend on doubled rope the DualScender is a good tool. Having two attachments with SRT is so much easier though.
At a minimum if a single attachment is going to be used why not install a stopper knot once the climber is clear of the ground by about 15 feet or so?
There are so many variables in our systems. Trying to isolate the effect of changing one variable is difficult. Doing a dissection of an event like this is coffee table talk. We can all speculate but we'll never know what happened.
During any ascent we should be considering backups/dual attachments and other safety measures. Adding these pieces is so easy. Redundancy is used in almost any other risky/hazardous system.
If you're going to ascend on doubled rope the DualScender is a good tool. Having two attachments with SRT is so much easier though.
At a minimum if a single attachment is going to be used why not install a stopper knot once the climber is clear of the ground by about 15 feet or so?
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
Good idea
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
For work ascents I use ascenders on a doubled rope with tautlines backing up each leg. The tautlines go all the way to the harness tie-in. Takes less time to setup the a six wrap prussik...
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
[ QUOTE ]
For work ascents I use ascenders on a doubled rope with tautlines backing up each leg. The tautlines go all the way to the harness tie-in. Takes less time to setup the a six wrap prussik...
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats pretty cool. I have the left and right ascender. I would like to try this set up.
Could you pleeeeeease post a pic of this, only a little lower?
Looks like you have a small shackle connecting them at the bottom hole? Does this have a tether as well as the two purple ropes that I asume connect at your bridge?
For work ascents I use ascenders on a doubled rope with tautlines backing up each leg. The tautlines go all the way to the harness tie-in. Takes less time to setup the a six wrap prussik...
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats pretty cool. I have the left and right ascender. I would like to try this set up.
Could you pleeeeeease post a pic of this, only a little lower?
Looks like you have a small shackle connecting them at the bottom hole? Does this have a tether as well as the two purple ropes that I asume connect at your bridge?
- Location
- Asheville,NC
it all looks good there blinky....cept for the 22kn sling I spy there....
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