Foot Lockin versus Rope Walkin

[treebing]

A lot of the time I don't go up the rope like that in my video. I do a sit stand footlock that may take a few minutes. I don't use my arms much and I rest on the hitch between every stride. I'm lazy with it a lot. I think this is the best way to teach footlocking to a young climber. While I don't think it necessary to teach ddrt before srt. It's an absute must to know footlocking. I avoid all of the above if there is a good way to climb the tree itself.

I do realize the ergonomic stresses of footlocking. I blame my blown out acl in footlocking. Although there was also bball involved. I still footlock but I take a lot better care ofy legs than before. I have also experienced pantin leg from one legged pantining. Working out and conditioning is the best way to avoid these ergonomic injuries.

 

[islandarb]

Well said Bing, I agree with you I am a very patient climber and I too prefer to climb the tree itself with my climbline as an aid of course ( why I like wrenching )...I like calisthenics and running which go hand in hand with my climbing,,,I like to keep my weight down and be as light as possible but as strong as possible....

 

[macswan]

I have never rope walked. I only do the bastardized ddrt footlocking, so I don't know if anyone even cares what I think. However, when footlocking recently I have been wrapping a loop around one foot so that it binds itself and works like having a foot ascender. Then I have the other foot free (and even that foot to some degree) to step in crotches, brace against the trunk, or kick myself in the a$$ for not having a wraptor. And when one leg gets tired I just switch the loop to the other foot. I have been really happy with it.
But it's all just preference really. This job is going to tear everybody down in different ways at different rates. No matter the method of ascension. Make me a device that slaps my hand when I pick up logs that I have no business trying to pick up. That will lengthen my career and lessen the kvetching my wife has to tolerate... which will lengthen the duration of my marriage.

 

[oceans]

You know, Mac, it's all we do through the course of a day...not just our chosen method for one single portion of it. Good point, and funny, too.

I still feel that technique can be a big part of our overall health and longevity. When you see the kind of poses a devoted Yoga practitioner can get into, you can imagine that foot-locking may not be all that bad here and there.

 

[rfwoodvt]

There is a lot to be said about the phrase working smarter, not harder. And, for each of us, what may be smarter is harder for someone else and vise-versa.

All I know is that I have worked with a lot of youngsters who can get a lot done quickly, but by the time the day is only 2/3 over, they are shot.

I can't keep up with them for the first half of the day, but like the energizer bunny, I can keep going, and going and going and outstrip thier productivity over the whole day.

There is something to be said for the tortise method, but the tortise still has plenty of room to learn how to do it faster.

Mac, we definitely need to connect. I've got a couple RopeWalker set ups you can try so as to get a feel for what it might do for you.

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]
...I have also experienced pantin leg from one legged pantining. Working out and conditioning is the best way to avoid these ergonomic injuries.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm always pushing a two-legged Pantin technique that allows the feet to align side-by-side and that keeps the knees/hips in good alignment for a balanced push. Tom has seen me do it I think. Left foot you create a loop in the tail, locks when you point your toe down, opens when you lift your toes up. Right foot has Pantin on it.

To climb stand on the Pantin foot, bring the left foot up side-by-side with the Pantin foot, now stand on the rope with both feet with toes pointed down slightly. To repeat the cycle hang on your arms briefly (no need to sit back on your hitch unless you want to rest on a long ascent), move the Pantin foot up, bring your left foot up, repeat.

Best for open climbing away from the trunk, similar to secured footlocking.

Bringin the left foot up next to the Pantin foot

Feet side-by side, ready to lock and stand up on the rope

-AJ

 

[scrat]

Don't let Moss fool you he is half Squirrel and just skampers up the bark of the tree ;-)

 

[CutHighnLetFly]

moss thats bada$$. ive never done any ropewalking before, dont face many real long ascents. i kinda just like footlocking personally and i do it in my logger heals, works for me when i get a rhythm, but that patin trick seems like it would be an improvement

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Thanks for the reminder AJ!

I remember seeing you do that the first time from a distance and from behind. It looked like you were frogging to me. When I got closer I saw that you weren't and figured out your configuration. What a head-slapper!

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the reminder AJ!

I remember seeing you do that the first time from a distance and from behind. It looked like you were frogging to me. When I got closer I saw that you weren't and figured out your configuration. What a head-slapper!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it's not a competition worthy technique but solid for every day climbing.

Been too long since we climbed Tom!
-AJ

 

[NickfromWI]

[ QUOTE ]
Fottolocking is way faster, cheaper, less gear intensive, and safer than ropewalking.

[/ QUOTE ]


Faster...up to a point. Also keep in mind how you feel when you get to the top. You might beat me up a 40' ascent, but I bet I'd beat you up an 80' ascent and feel much less out of breath when I got there.

love
nick

 

[treebing]

I know your in Cali, but how often do actually get to go 80 feet? I think for me, my point is the vast majority of day in day out tree work only calls for 5 to ten footlocks for access. Strapping on a pantin in these situation seems overkill. On Monday I have 6 huge oaks to climb and you better believe I will break out the pantin and the foot loop. I think i can do the job with only two ascents but yeah, No footlocking those trees. But then the rest of the week the ascenders will stay in the bag.

 

[bradirt]

a good climber should be immersed in multiple styles of climbing and should be able to appropriately choose which method he should use to climb his tree that will provide the safest and most efficient way to do the task. i mostly do larger trees and give the smaller ones to my helpers. so normally i'll use a two rope plan. one i use as an entry and the other i carry with and use as my work line. my main entry method is doubled rope footlock. less gear, faster set up, better exercise,ability to use multiple tie in points while entering, better exercise, if done correctly faster and not as exhausting as other methods and better exercise.

 

[Sirnick]

I'm a massive fan of rope walking, the speed i can access a tree compared to effort used is awesome i have my uni in place of my chest ascender with a pantin and hand ascender footloop combo so if i was to break an eppy or dead wood and drop any energy is placed back onto the uni. For me most ascents are between 60 to 100ft i do alot of line clearence so i can set my line, rope walk to the first branch do what i have to do and continue up with out changing any thing of my setup.

AAAAAAHHHHH! The wonders of SRWP!
It has really breathed new life into my climbing

 

[treebing]

For 60 feet its rope wlkjn for sure!

 

[Tony]

Foot locking is like smoking! We lall know that over time it is bad for us. Some stay stuff it it and smoke on. Others say I only smoke every now and then. It helps calm my nerves or allows me an outlet to give in to peer pressure, what ever. Others say never have never will. Still some say been there done that, lesson learned.

Some will even rationalize my argument away as too simple, over dramatized. Fine.

There are many things we once did we now know better about. The hardest habits to break are the old ingrained ones.

Sure we can just say to each his own. However, that argument is fraught with fallicies. Perhaps "my own" is to just cut everything down, to heck with climbing/pruning!

Yes, we must all make our own decisions. Yes, we all forge through a climb in our own way. This does not mean there are not some constants we should adhere to, some standards to follow, better, safer ways to do things than the way we have done them before.

Of all the climbing systems I have seen and/or heard about in which a climber fell, doubled rope foot lock is way up there. Operator error? Wrong technique for wrong situation? Bad form? We could go on, but we cannot and should not forget the poor track record no matter the reason true, false or somewhere inbetween, rationalized.

So like smoking. Foot locking is not something I would teach to production climbers, not something I will use, although I have done both in the past. I change, I learn, I grow, I make mistakes.

I am o.k. with all of the above,

Tony

 

[DSMc]

Good post, Tony. It is also good to keep in mind that we are discussing a work situation, not what we like to do for fun. Having a pantin on your foot and an ascender clipped to you harness is not gear intensive or any more complicated than having and using a lanyard but we all got used to that, right?
Using techniques, just because we have become accustomed to them, has never stopped the wise implementation of using safer and smarter methods in the working environment.


Dave

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a massive fan of rope walking, the speed i can access a tree compared to effort used is awesome i have my uni in place of my chest ascender with a pantin and hand ascender footloop combo so if i was to break an eppy or dead wood and drop any energy is placed back onto the uni. For me most ascents are between 60 to 100ft i do alot of line clearence so i can set my line, rope walk to the first branch do what i have to do and continue up with out changing any thing of my setup.

AAAAAAHHHHH! The wonders of SRWP!
It has really breathed new life into my climbing

[/ QUOTE ]
Sirnick, I like your methods, my favorite system is very similar but I use a Croll chest ascender at my main connection to the saddle and in place of where you have your hand ascender I place my Uni, once at my canopy anchor, I take off the Croll and shorten the ABR Unicender Tether that I purchased from treestuff. The Croll tucks out of the way and the Uni is now close to the main connection on my harness for moving around. This way, like you, I am never really disconnected.
At my age, foot locking is really out of the question. Although I practice it a little, I find it only useful for very short distance when I just don't feel like bending over to connect my foot ascender. But I should practice it more.
By the way, I am working on the bunny ears you showed the other day, love that knot and find it very useful for SRT advance of the climbing line.........
THANKS
I do take the tail of my climbing line and connect it to the biner I put on the bunny ears and it makes for easy retrieval and at the same time hosts the tail that has my DdRT on it if I am going to traverse or use it to move around. Of course you have to always be mindful not to clip onto the tail but it is not difficult for me as I have the pulley, friction saver and friction hitch attached as well.

 

[scrat]

Would anyone be willing to clue me in on the specifics that are bad physically from footlocking? what injuries have been sustained?
Thanks in advance
Todd

 

[Tony]

An excellent point Dave, one I often forget to quantify.

I am professionally concerned with extending the work careers of production arborists, while working.

What you do for fun is up to you.

As for what Injuries are sustained I can only speak from experience of sore knees, hips and shoulders. Perhaps I am a weenie, but if so I am not alone.

However, I will check on it for a more sustainable answer.

Tony