Fines for climbing dead ash trees

KevinS how is an ash different from any other tree? Surely you have protocols for other trees, extend them to ash.

There are lots of things to do. Bore into the tree vertically, use a resitograph, use a tomograph, use an increment borer, use a fractometer. Nothing that has not been done for the last two decades.

What about a "pull test" that includes a load cell so that you know the force being applies through the rope and with a few other measurements (rope length, placement height, etc.) you can calculate the exact load you have applied. If this meets the force you deem necessary off you go. I think a Rock Exotica load cell is $800, is this worth the help?

Perhaps you should be building your own library of knowledge, photograps, charts, tests etc. that you can use as an aid to helping others.
 
As I've worked with eab trees almost exclusively for the last few years. I've developed more of a strategy of dealing with them instead of testing them.
I go to work every day and assume that an ash is lurking somewhere, waiting to kill me. I'll never know which one, so I treat them all with the same degree of caution. Use the safest way at your disposal to put it down . There's always a safer way to accomplish this, it just depends on the value placed on your peace of mind. If you can place enough faith in information gathered from a relatively small sample area to base your decision "to climb or not to climb" then by all means give er. But.. The question that keeps me safe is " what if I'm wrong?". In my travels through the eab jungle, I've seen enough "postmortem" scary shit to safely say I will never climb another eab ash.
Cranes and lifts are so readily available nowadays there are few ash that absolutely need to be climbed. I've walked away from some ash that were later climbed successfully by another climber but..... What if they were wrong? Am I going to feel bad if a climber perished doing a tree I wouldn't? Absolutely. But that is their decision and I'm still here.
My observations are based in the greater Toronto area and may not be topical to eab effected trees elsewhere.
 
I completely agree. There are very few trees that lifts or cranes can't do. And if clients leave a tree long enough that it's too far gone to climb then that's too bad but my life is worth a lot more than some dead tree that a client decided not to deal with.


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Let's drop this euphemism, "peace of mind". What is your life worth? That's what we're dealing with here. Not whether I'm going to have the heebie jeebies while I'm up there. It's whether or not I'm going to die or be so horribly injured as to alter my life and that of my family? BigWood has the right mindset in approaching this.
As for the pull test, it's not just about breaking out the top but watching the root plate for movement. If I am rocking the plate or the truck is moving at the root collar/soil interface then it's not being climbed.
 
mrtree said:
KevinS how is an ash different from any other tree? Surely you have protocols for other trees, extend them to ash.

There are lots of things to do. Bore into the tree vertically, use a resitograph, use a tomograph, use an increment borer, use a fractometer. Nothing that has not been done for the last two decades.

What about a "pull test" that includes a load cell so that you know the force being applies through the rope and with a few other measurements (rope length, placement height, etc.) you can calculate the exact load you have applied. If this meets the force you deem necessary off you go. I think a Rock Exotica load cell is $800, is this worth the help?

Perhaps you should be building your own library of knowledge, photograps, charts, tests etc. that you can use as an aid to helping others.
Click to expand...
The difference I've been seeing is the problems. Ash have been rotting away at the roots ànd falling over. Ded elms die but a solid base tops decline. Sugars getting old tops, sections, etc rot off but the stump plug having no roots is a problem we can't see. I have just pulled some ash over roots gave away. That's my difference
 
One of the seminars at the isao conference this past week was on some testing they did on some dying(not dead) ash, they found that the limbs were more likely to break, but the root system was still relatively strong. IMHO I wouldn't trust it for heavy rigging but it should be ok for climbing if it still has some leaves, assuming it feels ok.
 
classictruckman said:
One of the seminars at the isao conference this past week was on some testing they did on some dying(not dead) ash, they found that the limbs were more likely to break, but the root system was still relatively strong. IMHO I wouldn't trust it for heavy rigging but it should be ok for climbing if it still has some leaves, assuming it feels ok.
Click to expand...
I agree branches and tops are weak. But if the the roots don't change why are they rotting away?

Basics: The eab girldes and it dies but if root don't feed leaves and leaves don't feed roots why do we assume only the top is declining especially when each piece explodes and pops like popcorn? How un equal are the root conditions

As well one thing that his study didn't include was wood elasticity in response scenarios. His presentation was good but didn't highlight anything new
 
I am really at a loss to understand why anybody thinks ash trees are acting differently than other species of trees. I wrote this else where:
There is quite clearly fungal decay happening in EAB infested trees. Dr. Prasad's much talked about paper proved something is happening. The problems seem to be that no fungal fruiting occurs prior to tree collapse, nobody is looking and we have few if any rapid test for species identification.

Species involved? Well maybe Schizophyllum commune, Bjerkandera adusta or Stereum gausapatum

There is also the possibility that as yet unknown endophytic fungi is being "activated" by the EAB as they introduce air to the cambium. Endophytic decay fungi are well known refer to Lynne Boddy's work which is really basic reading for an arborist.

Going back to how to test, KevinS have you tried a single suggestion? Have you bought an increment borer or a resistograph? There is no magic one over look you need to investigate.
 
mrtree said:
I am really at a loss to understand why anybody thinks ash trees are acting differently than other species of trees. I wrote this else where:
There is quite clearly fungal decay happening in EAB infested trees. Dr. Prasad's much talked about paper proved something is happening. The problems seem to be that no fungal fruiting occurs prior to tree collapse, nobody is looking and we have few if any rapid test for species identification.

Species involved? Well maybe Schizophyllum commune, Bjerkandera adusta or Stereum gausapatum

There is also the possibility that as yet unknown endophytic fungi is being "activated" by the EAB as they introduce air to the cambium. Endophytic decay fungi are well known refer to Lynne Boddy's work which is really basic reading for an arborist.

Going back to how to test, KevinS have you tried a single suggestion? Have you bought an increment borer or a resistograph? There is no magic one over look you need to investigate.
Click to expand...
I have been playing around with drilling and boring and pull tests. While watching the trees crumble as we work on them.
I'm not finding the trunks as the issue. Until they hit something they're staying in 1 piece. Often dead and dry but normally expected.
What I have less of a grasp on is the manner and speed of root decay, brittleness do certain habitats slow or encourage this etc.

Testing the wood was never my unknown question. It's how to see if and how well they are attached to the ground.

Thanks for the reading I'll get into that
 
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