felling

Hey Al, I don't know if I evangelize here much for Stihl, so not everyone may know that about me :) To the best of my recollection, Stihl produces the largest-radius-nose bars commercially available at this time.

I'm on the road at the moment so have to guess by memory. I believe the "standard" (laminated; not solid with replaceable tip) Stihl bars have a 10-driver nose sprocket; the "normal" solid bars have an 11, and the "large" have 13. The gentler (flatter) radius allows the chain to behave much more closely while traversing the tip to the way it works on the belly of the bar as compared to the "safer", tighter radius which greatly reduces the chain's cutting action (along with less grabbiness/kickback).

Those of you who've never done a back-to-back comparison with the very same loop of chain will just have to take my word that there is a marked difference in performance (increasing) cutting with the nose (boring, or with both dogging in and swinging, or merely letting the saw drop itself straight through a cut with the bar fully buried) as the bar nose progresses to a larger radius. Those of you who have have to agree with me about this.

Back to bore-cutting a "regular" tree; others have agreed. The method allows for a much safer, surer, and relaxed felling job. Is it the best for production work where timber prepped for delivery to the sawmill by the most boardfeet per day possible is the goal? Very much not likely. That's a completely different situation where safe enough is good enough. To hear the story told, those folks have to nearly run with a running saw to make better dough. Me? Well, I'm a little more laid-back than that.
 
I know to keep asking must be annoying for you guys that know all this stuff already, but are there anymore diagrams that show this in more of a step by step process? Every little bit helps, for us newbies!!! Thanks
 
Casually and carefully form the notch.

Bore into the tree (from both sides if necessary when the bar won't protrude from the other side) somewhere in the middle of what will be your back cut.

Casually and carefully saw toward the notch, forming the hinge exactly as you want it.

Saw back toward where you want the strap.

This leaves the tree standing very securely on a triangulated platform.

If you're going to need to use (a) wedge(s), maybe leave the strap a bit toward one side; the side most away from the lean.

Tap in your wedge(s).

Release the strap from the back or by inserting your bar and sawing backward through it.

Drive the wedge(s) if necessary to start the fall.

Retreat to a safe place and watch the tree go precisely to your specification.

Work it up.
 
Gord

Thats prety much it, but the wedge comes from the back of the tree and is driven towards the hinge (90 deg to where it is on your diagram).

As someone mentioned before, the second cut is just above or below the first so as not to hit the wedge. It needs to overlap the first but not over the wedge.

As the last cut advances, the wedges can be tapped up to lift the tree progressivly (without working too hard).

Graeme
 
There have been a few posts that have promoted the "back release" method of falling for what appears to be all trees, forward leaners, straight up and back leaners.

If you are an experianced faller then I suppose you can fall a tree most anyway you like. When discussing a specific method of falling and how it is applied, I feel the presense of learners useing these discussions as a guide. My comments regarding applying the correct method of falling to the right situation is for entry level competancies.

That is why I asked the question earlier of, what were others seeing being taught in their respective counties, both amenity and forestry falling courses?

To apply wedges to the "back release" method of falling is to fail that tree if being assessed. That method is to be used in heavy leaning trees and the wedges will do little.

For a tree standing up straight it is more effective and less effort to use the "quarter cut" method of falling. To promote the back release in that situation will only mislead learners. My feeling is that if someone is watching these posts and is wanting to learn about falling, they should attend a proffesional falling course local to them.

Opinions, including mine, should not be taken as a substitute for proper training.

A summery of the basic falling training here, is that there is 4 methods of falling and only two require the use of wedges.

One problem we have here is, that some "entry level" faller training has been taught by trainers with little or no experiance. This has led to much confusion for the learners when they try to align their competancies with proffesioals.

It concerns me that some of the same misinformation has appeared here.

Graeme
 
a few thoughts

i think of a back release as a 'trigger cut'. For one thing it does allow the 'sawyer' to be farther away from the hinge when the hinge goes into motion, especially on larger trees.

But; i too think the Trigger is really just needed when tree will move away from you freely of it's own accord; especially pretty strongly. i mostly like slow flexxing hinge; less ground concussion, less shrapnel, more escape time, more time to stay in batter's box and steer etc. Except when trying to dutch step, punch through obstachle or throw away from me 'in tree' etc.; and use the slamming force purposefully. To get that slower fold i think we need stronger hinge; hinge strength being a response to the load on hinge at first folding.

In straight tree or shallow lean; a tree has least leverage on hinge; so forces a weaker hinge for the rest of the felling arc. But, this tree also has the longest to fall with that weaker hinge, less direction commitmeant. The largest change in leverage loading is in the vertical range. So, these weaker hinges in shallow trees must take on the most severe increase in loading. A deeper leaning tree, forces it's own stronger hinge, less degrees of fall,more determined direction and the change in loading between those degrees is less impacting against the hinge stength.

So, i think shallows should be worked off you; forcing hinge stronger; don't hold back with trigger. Leaners, will do that automatically, maybe too well; so might need trigger. Trigger should be opposite lean angle for greatest safety. This keeps sawyer on tension side in sidelean, but inline is the best control angle against the lean too.

A slower fold shows more fight/strength in hinge/matching tree. This fight gives control of speed and power of tree; but can overcome the particular constitution of spar and Barber Chair. Because of the immense leveraged force and motions on spar, as another possible reason not to use slow/powerful (as opposed to fast/weak against same loading) hinge. Also, this fight continues down into hinge, stump and roots; so underground lines can be tight from tree growth and broken as there is unseen movement and immense force trailing thru their restrictions. Especailly with slow fall and hinge giving all that control and resistance; relying on it's single underground anchor to back it up.

okay; i guess i said just a few...
crazy.gif
 
Mangoes:
“A couple key advantages of bore cutting:
-felling site can be surveyed seconds before the tree hits the felling zone with the ability to wait until the site is safe before committing the tree.”
Did you mean to say: “felling site can be surveyed just before releasing the tree to see if the site is still safe.”?
In any case, I’d suggest that needs to be done well before then. Any felling operation with the slightest risk on intrusion is a recipe for disaster.

“faller can be 10-20-30 feet away from the tree as soon as it starts to move, nothing macho about getting creamed by a big butt”

I’ve used a 10 foot bar before, curious as to where you got the 20 and 30 foot ones.
Look, the instant you make the final cut, you are still at the stump. Now a tree may hold a bit, the wind comes up, and then it starts to move. Understood.
I think your point might have been that by finishing the back-cut at the back of the tree a faller can have a faster escape. Tree Spyder stated that too.

That is a fair point, especially when viewed in the context of a commonly used west coast professional faller technique of finishing the back cut as the tree starts over in order to adjust the tapered hinge as needed to perfectly place a tree. There is serious skill involved at this level and it is, without question, more dangerous.

However, suggest that you hold exaggerations to single digits.

Heck, with blasting one can be 100-200-and should really be more than 300 feet away.
 
Altering a back cut as the tree starts over tells me the faller has made an error in setting up the tree and is attempting to compensate for it as the tree falls and instead of leaving the tree he places himself in considerable danger.
I've yet to see this method incorporated in any instruction for felling trees.
 
Graeme, to answer your question- as you may have gathered, there is little to no formal felling training offered or required in the US. Nothing mandatory, no tests or certifications except for maybe Forest Service but I don't think those guys do much production felling anyway-the real logging is mostly contracted out to private contractors. Sure there are books you can read and maybe you could take a course with Soren Erickson or Arbor Master but nothing is required or standardized. I'm by no means pushing for more rules and regs but merely suggesting that once again it seems as though the Aussies, Kiwis, and Euros have got quite a leg up on US.
 
Altering the hinge

Kevin:
I'm not aware of it being formally taught either. Don't practice it myself. It is neat to watch it being done by a pro.
I think it is one of those things that just comes through word of mouth and the nature of the job and the demands of the job.
If you're falling 40 to 60 foot tall poles in a timber carnival. Easy stuff. I asked a faller once what was the biggest tree he ever fell. He said 292 feet to the first break. He was telling me two things. 1)Size of tree, 2)That he could cut. That he didn't waste any valuable timber by being 2 feet off lay at 60 foot was what he was basically saying.
When you're dropping tree after tree over 130 feet tall. You need to limit breakage as much as possible. These guys are just trying to get that extra bit of accuracy. Miss every stump and rock.

Now the caveat. I'm not gonna do it.
Best option, use those escape routes without delay.
 
Forest Service training and certification

Raven is correct as far as I'm aware.
There may be a few states that are on the correct track.

The Forest Service certification is not a bad thing. Just that we shouldn't be the ones leading the way. Industry should be but loggers are such an independent group that nothing is in the works right now.
 
[ QUOTE ]
For trees standing up straight or leaning back, "scarf" for the intended direction af fall. Of the wood remaining (excluding the hingewood) half is cut to the hinge(one quarter). Wedges can be put in and tapped up.

The remaining quarter is cut from the side with the escape route and preferably the tension side of the stump. ...

Useing the back release method in that situation only forces the wedges to work against the holding strap. Too much work with no gain, and reduced control.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the quarter cut method, aren't the wedges (initially) 'working against' the uncut quarter?

Or, to ask the question from the other direction, in the back cut release method, can't the wedges also "...be put in and tapped up"?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Mangoes:
“A couple key advantages of bore cutting:
-felling site can be surveyed seconds before the tree hits the felling zone with the ability to wait until the site is safe before committing the tree.”
Did you mean to say: “felling site can be surveyed just before releasing the tree to see if the site is still safe.”?
In any case, I’d suggest that needs to be done well before then. Any felling operation with the slightest risk on intrusion is a recipe for disaster.

“faller can be 10-20-30 feet away from the tree as soon as it starts to move, nothing macho about getting creamed by a big butt”

I’ve used a 10 foot bar before, curious as to where you got the 20 and 30 foot ones.
Look, the instant you make the final cut, you are still at the stump. Now a tree may hold a bit, the wind comes up, and then it starts to move. Understood.
I think your point might have been that by finishing the back-cut at the back of the tree a faller can have a faster escape. Tree Spyder stated that too.

That is a fair point, especially when viewed in the context of a commonly used west coast professional faller technique of finishing the back cut as the tree starts over in order to adjust the tapered hinge as needed to perfectly place a tree. There is serious skill involved at this level and it is, without question, more dangerous.

However, suggest that you hold exaggerations to single digits.

Heck, with blasting one can be 100-200-and should really be more than 300 feet away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, my bad, poor choice of words/description. Depending on how slowly she folds, you MAY get up to 30 feet away before she hits the deck.

Didn't mean to get ya'll so emotional about it.
cool.gif
 
Thanks to those giving the feedback and insight into the falling courses in your areas.

Kevin the "ofswa" courses you sent the link for appears very similar to the recognised system here for forest industries. Like here it appears to be an entry level course and is meant to help a learner build a sound foundation of skills and underpinning knowledge.

The faller assessors for forest industry here are meant to have 5 years industry experience. That generaly gives them knowledge and skills well in excess of what they are assessing for entry level.

Faller trainers on the other hand don't require the falling experience. They only require to hold the ticket they are training others in. You can imagine what happens sometimes when poorly prepared trainees front up to be assessed by the faller assessor.

Unfortunately the falling competancies, for amenity tree work has a number of levels devised so as to be different to the timber industry. These were in general put together by academics and customised to suit their training packages. Needless to say they are not recognised by the timber industry.

Unfortunately that seperate evolution of "the wheel", has been a "breeding ground" for misinformation and confusion, on some core material relating to hand falling.

Graeme
 
Mahk

The purpose of the wedge in the "quarter cut" method of falling is to ensure the tree will lift over the scarf. The initial placement of the wedge does need to be tapped up. The idea of that is to seat them in enough so the tree cannot come back at all. Over hitting the wedge at this point is a waste of effort.

As the remaining wood is severed (from the rear toward the hinge), the wedge can be tapped up some more if needed, and wont be working against any uncut wood. If needed more wedges can follow your final cut provided there is space to the chain.

The "back release" method of falling is selected because the tree has enough lean that conventional scarf and backcut may leave pulled wood, increase the chance of "barbers chair" or increase the time at the stump for the faller.

Setting up a "back release" and tapping in wedges is a waste of time and effort. It gives little or no incease in control or safety. In that case the wedges are working directly against the strap of wood at the rear of the tree that is holding it up. When the strap is cut, istantly the wedges are released.

If you are falling 1 or 100 trees for the day why work harder than you have to?

Graeme
beer.gif
 
Graeme;
You're quite correct in your assessment.
The requirement is a basic course that is accepted by Workmans Compensation and Canada Labour.
The logging standard is more involved and certification for falling trees out west in the timber industry is even more stringent as described below ...


<font color="red">Faller Certification Process</font>

<font color="blue">The BC Faller Training Standard is the foundation for the faller certification process, which is intended to train and certify hand-fallers as required by the Occupational Health and Safety Regulation. The Training Standard recognizes two categories of fallers: new fallers and experienced fallers.

New Fallers

To achieve certification, a new faller will be required to complete a New Faller Training Program which consists of 5 days in-class training, 25 days of closely supervised field training and then up to 180 days of worksite experience under close supervision before taking the Faller Certification Exam and Field Evaluation.

The faller certification process consists of a written or oral examination on safe falling practices and an evaluation in the field accompanied by a Qualified Supervisor/Trainer (QST). A minimum passing grade of 75 percent is required in each of the written/oral examination and the field evaluation.

Fallers who pass the written/oral examination and field evaluation will immediately receive a faller’s logbook, which will be used to document the faller’s work experience and competencies. The Qualified Supervisor/Trainer (QST) will provide the exam results to the BC Faller Training Standard &amp; Certification Program who will recognize the accomplishment by sending a Certified Faller’s Wallet Card and framed wall certificate to the faller. For more information on New Faller Training, please visit the link on this page.</font>
http://www.bcforestsafe.org/content-program-fallers/program-fallers-1-overview.htm#faller_cert
.........................................

I've been trained by people who didn't know what gunning sticks were and never worked in the industry but are qualified to instruct these courses.

You need to understand the mechanics and be able to read the tree you are felling before and after it falls to be a successful faller.
Certification might get you a job but it won't save your bacon when the heat's on.
 
Mahk i think the 1/4 cut is more a wedge loaded then gradual release, whittling down until the balance between hold and load in unbalanced and movemeant starts. The more more rear trigger cut preloads with wedge and just saves wood in the most leveraged position for quick release and upsetting the balance. You could call it exactly right (leave jsut the right amount in preuct of trigger); but better to whittle down and observe/write prescription what is right/just starts folding slowly? More of a watch, than dictate what is right?
 
I didn't take Mahk's question as anything other than rhetorical. I nearly posed the same one myself for that reason.

Nobody has advocated trying to lift the tree with a wedge while the backstrap was still in place. For exactly the same reason as in the "quarter cut", a wedge might be used in a "bore cut". It's there to keep the cut from closing onto the bar/chain when cutting the strap.

I personally don't feel a "quarter cut" would be any quicker than a "bore cut" method for felling a non-leaning tree in any case. Most certainly it would be safer if for no other reason than it would be impossible to incorrectly attempt to lift too much with a wedge before there was a proper hinge formed.

There's no need to argue over this. Both methods are good and can be used in a multitude of ways by anyone who possesses sufficient knowledge and experience. The right way to get a tree horizontal is the one which the feller uses to achieve sufficient control with sufficient safety. To prescribe particular methods for (only) specific situations is counterproductive and to fail a candidate for using a perfectly good method in any way they see fit is especially wrong. The description of such an act reminds me of situations where a student must put the wrong answer on a test because they know that's what the proctor expects and they'd get it "wrong" for answering it "right".
 
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