F-8/srt questions

evo

evo

Been here much more than a while
Location
My Island, WA
I know that this has been discussed before, and I did a quick search and could not find the smoken gun. I'm just now experimenting with srt, and had a conversation with the boss today.
I'm geared up for the F8 method and for the ascent I'd like to use an handled ascender. Do I need a back-up? is one required? Since the ascender is above the hitch is there concern for the ascender failing? Is the hitch a viable backup while under the ascender?

So here is the gear list from the bottom up for clarification.
Paniten
Vt on a hitch climber
single handled petzl ascender w/ a foot loop
figure 8/revolver for decent
 
My personal belief and others disagree is that there is no way for an ascender that you are holding in you hand to come down on your hitch. But I also believe that one should think twice before connecting to any ascenders at all during ascent. Ascenders can be dangerous because they are not able to come down. It is a nightmare of mine to be stuck in a tree with no fast way down. Unclipping from a waited descender is tricky.

Therefore your main point of attachment is your hitch. You are connected to one rope that you dont need backup on your rope. A hitch should be rated like your rope and be heat resistant. No tenex. I prefer to use the upper ascender only as a foot hold and also to clip into in order enable me to install (f8 revolver/ robot/ scarab/ "two way descent device"). I would also carry some kind of descent device in ready access below the hitch so you can quickly bail.
 
Hey Evo. Wondered where you went.

I use the same set-up that you are talking about. If I'm not climbing up the rope, like while spiking up a removal with a lanyard, I keep my F8 installed and adjust it as I go. That way, I'm ready to descend at any point as I work my way up, cutting as needed. Not the fastest, but for intermittently working, it works well enough.

My VT has been fine, but maybe a less finicky hitch, that more predictably locks up when weighted, might be better.

So far as I can tell, the homemade wooden rope wrench is the way to go, until Treebing gets his whatever-material RW on the market.

Seems like a hand ascender might conflict with the RW...Kevin?



Seems like a floating ascender Rope Walker style would be better, except you can't install a F8 for descent, as your weight is going to be tensioning the line. That way, its easier climbing, and no ascender above the hitch.


I haven't set this up yet, as I've been buying some other things instead of another Pantin or CMI, and its been removals for a lot of the winter work.
 
I'm with Kevin on this one...there is no way really for the ascender to release the hitch when the hitch is weighted, so I see no need for a back up. But like Kevin, I only use the upper ascender as a hand hold, and for a place to install the foot loop for my other foot. The ascender is in no way connected to my harness. I'm just attached the the rope via my hitch.
 
Diddo on that as well. I see the need (or, I can more readily concede the need) for a back up on an ascender when all that is attached to the line is an ascender. But when I am already tied to a hitch I don't see the point. I too, don't attach myself at all to the ascender. 90% of the time I don't even run a foot loop on the ascender.
 
I used to (still sometimes do) run exactly whay you mention, except for the footloop on the upper ascender. With the pantin and ascender for progress, essentially a weird body thrusting kind of motion, and the hitch functioning as a floating back up.

FWIW though, I did slip a little, once, when I accidentally thumbed open the cam on the upper ascender. I used to climb a lot with a petzl basic as my upper, so grasping the body of the ascender was second nature. This caused me to drop onto my hitch and release it, but only for a second. The hitch engaged as my momentum picked up, or as I let go, I can't really be sure about that now as it's been a while. But that being said, that was once in many thousands of feet of jugging using that system.

I changed back to a true frogger (croll, upper ascender, footloop) after having some trouble with my back. Mostly so I could use both feet equally during ascent. Something else to consider when desiging your ascent systems, especially if jugging a rope is your preferred method of access, as it is mine.

You can't really beat a pantin, hitch, and ascender though IMHO as far as a comfortable and lightweight srt access is concerned. The exception being (of course) the footlocking prussik when isolating a limb is possible or expedient.

I briefly tried just using just the pantin and my climbing hitch on a shoulder runner as my ascent system. It worked, but not quite as efficiently, and of course without the redundancy of other systems. When it domes down to it, I prefer two attachment points on ascent, for some reason. You may not have that hang up.
 
Kevin,
Any information on the rope wrench? When and where can I get an original? How are the aluminium or plastic ones coming along? I am very keen on putting one to use in my single rope climbing as this is truly an innovative concept in tree climbing, both simplistic and efficient. Can't wait patiently any longer... would it be possible to order one from you personally?
Thank-you,
Russell
 
X2 Kevin. Especially that mid-line attachable one that I have heard tell about (and actually seen, at least one model, per Lucas Drews leaking cell phone pics). I have been experimenting with climbing SRT and Ddrt in the same tree...working off both, ascent solely SRT (have come to hate foot-locking)...anyway, yeah, really want that removable WR!
 
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