Experimental Pruning

Is this kind of tree management too extreme?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 52.9%

  • No

    Votes: 3 17.6%

  • It's worth a try to save an old tree for a few more years

    Votes: 5 29.4%
  • Total voters
    17
Without knowing more about the wall and the owner's goals and the job's objective, who knows what the job specs should be. Rope, common in horticulture are notching---cutting above a bud--and nicking--cutting below a bud. but spiralling 6-10" whaa? i don't follow; pic or diagram?

Aaron, can anyone judge whether or how much other treatments are probable to reduce the vitality of trees? I heard that a lot too but it's largely based on assumptions, theories and generalizations. For example, does removing the top layer of leaves from a tree, when there are many leaves below, really reduce energy in, and hurt the vitality of a tree?
Or does reduction increase vitality, by shortening transport distances, and the number of forks (turns) in the sapstream?

Likewise, 'a few more years then slay it' is based on what?... that said I hope the thing out lives us all hahahahaaa!
Pel, hair grows back differently when cut different ways by different barbers. And of course it'll need cutting again. Hair, like a tree, grows, duh. What's wrong with that--assets require maintenance. If your truck mechanic recommended "Remove and Replace", what would you say? :envidioso
 
Hi Guy!
I don't view this tree as much of an asset (to the owner) than a cash cow (for the arborist/herdsman) to be milked till the poor owner finally gets fed up with ole Bessie and sends her off to the glue factory.
 
guymayor said:
Without knowing more about the wall and the owner's goals and the job's objective, who knows what the job specs should be. Rope, common in horticulture are notching---cutting above a bud--and nicking--cutting below a bud. but spiralling 6-10" whaa? i don't follow; pic or diagram?

Aaron, can anyone judge whether or how much other treatments are probable to reduce the vitality of trees? I heard that a lot too but it's largely based on assumptions, theories and generalizations. For example, does removing the top layer of leaves from a tree, when there are many leaves below, really reduce energy in, and hurt the vitality of a tree?
Or does reduction increase vitality, by shortening transport distances, and the number of forks (turns) in the sapstream?

Likewise, 'a few more years then slay it' is based on what?... that said I hope the thing out lives us all hahahahaaa!
Pel, hair grows back differently when cut different ways by different barbers. And of course it'll need cutting again. Hair, like a tree, grows, duh. What's wrong with that--assets require maintenance. If your truck mechanic recommended "Remove and Replace", what would you say? :envidioso
Click to expand...
Spiraling to slow the movement of nutrients and wound to expend energy.
 
I say a tree is a self supporting oraganism ,perfect by design.Can trees tolerate stress certainly, but certainly doesn't need people to f with it to survive ..if its meant to be it will be if its not it won't . Tc said the client called him cause they thought it needed to be removed he says no let's save it for a few years.. Ok great ,but if he's just going to cut it back to the nodes and keep pruning it back is it going to slow that tree down enough to make a difference or in few years when its pushing up on the wall they'll be asking for a quote for removal anyway . people don't have patience for trees ..I try to preach patience. Some understand some don't give a dern ..people need trees ,trees don't need people . We as tree Touchers should promote that and sometimes leave well enough alone.
 
One man's thistle is another man's wistle.
I don't like telling people about the grieving process but most times a removal is regretted. TRUTH.
Btw never shit in your own yard.
 
not a very big tree... not much of a threat to fall ... did any one mention scoring the cambium just above the wall side to try and kill or stunt the roots that are pushing on the wall?
A pic of the distance between base of tree and wall might be helpful..
 
RopeShield said:
... most times a removal is regretted. TRUTH.
.
Click to expand...
That's my experience as well.

People have infinite patience for trees when they can see it will pay off. Arborist's job is to write clear objective and specs to make it easy to see. Maybe TC's mission was to get the owner to appreciate the tree, and maybe to see a crack in the wall as a small price to pay for it, or maybe even to see that it adds charm to the site.

Daniel yes nicking was mentioned, but reducing sway will do a lot more to lessen buttressing.
 
habitat, if nothing else its gonna be great for the local birds to perch on
 
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Maybe track the growth to keep it experimental and definitely let us know ..I did ask previously what the dbh of tree and proximity to the wall.. any info on that would be cool to know and follow up with how this turns out maybe posting for years to come:D..if it gets any worse I'd tell them call the mason for some repair work to wall ..but that's just me ..talk myself out of work all the time..could be why I'm just a poor and humble treeman. Maybe I should save more money and stop feeding the birds(y) People I deal with are sometimes ( more often than not)asking me to do things that I consider to have negative impact on trees ..ei..large pruning cuts on mature trees because the limb is over the roof of house or unnecessary removals because of they are scared of the tree falling or whatever the case...its not easy to change peoples minds sometimes when its made up ,when you as the arborist have to convince them a tree is worth keeping if it is ..which obviously by not just selling the removal and your unsightly yet hopefully affective pruning dose to retain the tree make a difference to generations to come . That said I feel like this tree you have decided to take on the task of preserving is not an easy task ,but I wish you good luck and hope you can keep the tree healthy for the future kids to climb and the birds to nest in. Hopefully not this bird:buitre:
 
When I took Dr. Shigo's four day class in '95 he talked often about making sure that we paid attention to the results of our pruning. If our goal is to create woodpecker/raccoon habitat, then, by all means, make flush cuts. If our goal is to slow the growth of a tree and keep it alive as long as possible...make correct cuts and remove the correct amount of the 'food factory' [leaves]. Understand that the the tree will grow in circumference. Adjust as needed.
 
Was a crown reduction pruning not an option? That would have possibly been easier to manage in the future. Now there will be witches broom shoots all over , and some thinning stages required.
 
We have some deep biases about what a tree should look like, based on the narrow lessons we have been hammered with. i doubt most people would consider this "unsightly pruning". Europeans and Japanese have centuries more experience than we do. This is commonly seen outside the US, maybe with more leaves retained on the outside.

family's got a point--will the tree respond with a lot of panic sprouting? Time will tell.
 
"A tree does provide shade even to those who weild the Axe to cut it down." A quote I passed over recently forget where now. I know it got me thinking deeply about trees and nature .
As far as whats unsightly is in the eye of the beholder . I love the natural look each tree has been given genetically and through evolution of time, not a man conquered look.
 
It does look symmetrical, and generally people will say that it looks nice. I've always wondered if we can try this technique on a dead tree, if the heartwood is petrified and solid? You would have quite a sculpture!
 
TTF, I'd like to see the results too. It would show the outcome and effect of the treatment. But still, I'm left wondering why the focus on the crown instead of the interface between the wall and tree. Therein lies the problem. The girth question was never answered so I looked up the species. There are specimens in the UK that have grown 3.65-4.8 m. That tells me, that regardless of what is done to the crown all that's happening is a slowing of the stem growth not a cessation. The original problem will still exist in the long term.

It leads me to how trees grow over and around solid objects. If the wall is cracking, like the basement wall of another thread, then there is an issue with the design and construction of the wall. it could be considered akin to a dam, meant to withstand certain forces without failure. There are countless examples one of which I was witness to in Toronto. An 80' white oak that had grown against then onto the top of a wall approximately 8' high. 3/4 of the trunk was rooted along side the wall with the remainder on the top of it. The tree was stable and the wall unscathed. Dynamic load testing was conducted and modeled to determine this.

Could the prescription have been to leave the tree alone or even invigorate it's growth while reinforcing the wall to sustain the forces exerted on it by the tree? The thought being the sooner it begins to engulf the wall the better?
 
How would you suggest reinforcing the wall? Maybe inject glue to prevent pieces from falling off, without aesthetic loss?

Why was the crack in the wall viewed as a problem of such magnitude? People are funny.

But the pruning, to growth points beyond the previous reduction, is sustainable. "A few more years"? It might outlive you, sonny! :numberone: Shigo-approved methodology, per 1986. :aburrido:
 
Reinforcing the wall is not within my technical skill set. I defer to the civil engineers. Yes, people are funny!

The tree will do fine regardless... Ok, any civil engineers in the audience??
 
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