DON'T EVEN TRY IT!

[owScott]

I can’t watch the video but I imagine it’s a steep humbolt with a backcut about the same angle as the bottom of the face. Cut fast then slow, and as the top commits blast through the hinge spearing the top butt down.
Nothing new, nothing worth while. I’ll very rarely do this on 4-6” Doug fir noodle trees in stands that are too dense to get a top to go ANY OTHER FUCKEN POSSIBLE WAY!

I’d much rather one hand a 395 with a 48” bar and make the cut from a neighboring tree, flapping that saw around like the badass I really am.

You should really take me up on a few drinks on Vaseline alley, if you do you will find there are many ways to get the ego stroking attention you seek. Just don’t make the same mistake I did and go up stairs to the pool tables, I still can’t get that image out of my mind. Or perhaps you’ll be right at home?

Yep, i too have had to remove tops in a really tight stand which leaves NO CHOICE. I cut the smallest top i can and be prepared to be slapped around. Best to wear an old school full brim hat of hardness.

 

[Daniel]

First time I used the stangle, I was in a maple on spikes. top had some fairly long limbs on the back side. I opened the face cut enough to ensure those limbs cleared my overhead air space. I added a few degrees, maybe 10, to build in a safety margin, which still kept the top short enough to clear the obstacles.


that was a cut I trusted my life to. it worked perfectly. by the time that faced closed the top had enough forward momentum to keep the crown moving away, as it came down.

As rico pointed out, when the but slips, the butt's forward movement off the cut, will tend to straighten the piece, which can change the trajectory of the crown, making it swing back towards the stem.

in the OP video the face was very narrow, so the forward movement and momentum of the crown was minimal at separation, at that point the but drop caused the top to straighten out enough that the back limbs would have hit a climber if he was at the cut.
if you watch the video in quarter speed you will see that not one pine limb was broken during the drop. that was a perfect outcome. there wasn't much of a hole for such a big top.

One more thing to note is that the tree Getting top was going to be removed so that damage to those lower limbs didn't matter but there were some adjacent trees involved those with a limbs that needed to be protected in this case no limbs were damaged on the way down which was optimal.

The fact that other people think this was some crazy dangerous operation when in fact it was a highly technical and perfectly executed cut speaks to their lack of skill ability and vision.

 

[rico]

As rico pointed out, when the but slips, the butt's forward movement off the cut, will tend to straighten the piece, which can change the trajectory of the crown, making it swing back towards the stem.

in the OP video the face was very narrow, so the forward movement and momentum of the crown was minimal at separation, at that point the but drop caused the top to straighten out enough that the back limbs would have hit a climber if he was at the cut.


The fact that other people think this was some crazy dangerous operation when in fact it was a highly technical and perfectly executed cut speaks to their lack of skill ability and vision.

So you post up yet another dangerous cut. You get called out on it, and once again defend your hackery with more of your fucking nonsense. When you can no longer hide from the video evidence you concede that the slice cut in question could have resulted in an injured climber. You then finish it all up by attacking others for their "lack of skilll, ability, and vision". Did I miss anything?

 

[southsoundtree]

Wait, defending one's self by attacking people... Huh, something new!

 

[evo]

Wait, defending one's self by attacking people... Huh, something new!

It’s a condition... not unlike Trump

 

[southsoundtree]

Huh, I never noticed , but now that you mention it...

 

[Daniel]

It's you who spout the nonsense brother

There was no climber therefore no climber could have been injured on this cut.

You did the same thing using expletives and throwing personal insults about the swing Dutchman when I was merely pointing out that this had been published by Doug Dent which is one of your heroes, and I had been experimenting with the cut, with moderate success, trying to discover the factors that influence the cuts results.

the cut must have some utility for a Dent to publish it, but you continued to rally on and on about how crazy and reckless and dangerous it was until we saw Patrick Lacey demonstrate the same cut in one of his videos at which time you just said Pat a good saw man and I won't question his cutting techniques

so that's how much sense you make

Bottom line is you do not have the skill or ability to make this cut safely and I do

There's nothing new here about people criticizing my techniques only thing is I've been doing it and publishing it in videos on YouTube for over 10 years without incident.

Cuts that used to freak people out like the vertical snap cut are now commonplace in the industry.

And so maybe it will be with this cut or maybe not but the bottom line is I don't have a problem with this cut I can adjust the cut according to species and scenario to make it work when necessary


I do not recommend it others try this technique I'm only saying that I do it and can do it safely.

however if someone is going to try it, the one thing I would caution anyone about do not try to use this cut on anything that doesn't have front lean

you will get no control from the hinge as far as direction

the piece has to go towards the lean or this cut will fail

So blast away boys .

 

[Oroboros]

Well I love Daniel and I'm glad he posts this stuff.
But then I accept responsibility for my life and actions.

 

[owScott]

Why post info that people are told not to use? Knowing its going to create controversy then criticize people for disputing its legitimacy. Daniel i have never personally attacked you here only your techniques. Many people here have the same amount of time and experience as you if not more and are still out doing it at a high level. You are taking things most of us already know and repackaging it in a bunch of words and calling it ground breaking technique that only you have the skill to execute. One more thing to note i would hope that you are removing the tree you topped that should be obvious. That statement suggests that you top trees that arent being removed because why would you say that?

 

[rico]

It's you who spout the nonsense brother

There was no climber therefore no climber could have been injured on this cut.

You did the same thing using expletives and throwing personal insults about the swing Dutchman when I was merely pointing out that this had been published by Doug Dent which is one of your heroes, and I had been experimenting with the cut, with moderate success, trying to discover the factors that influence the cuts results.

the cut must have some utility for a Dent to publish it, but you continued to rally on and on about how crazy and reckless and dangerous it was until we saw Patrick Lacey demonstrate the same cut in one of his videos at which time you just said Pat a good saw man and I won't question his cutting techniques

so that's how much sense you make

Bottom line is you do not have the skill or ability to make this cut safely and I do

There's nothing new here about people criticizing my techniques only thing is I've been doing it and publishing it in videos on YouTube for over 10 years without incident.

Cuts that used to freak people out like the vertical snap cut are now commonplace in the industry.

And so maybe it will be with this cut or maybe not but the bottom line is I don't have a problem with this cut I can adjust the cut according to species and scenario to make it work when necessary


I do not recommend it others try this technique I'm only saying that I do it and can do it safely.

however if someone is going to try it, the one thing I would caution anyone about do not try to use this cut on anything that doesn't have front lean

you will get no control from the hinge as far as direction

the piece has to go towards the lean or this cut will fail

So blast away boys .

Typical Daniel. Start changing the story (now it should only be used on a front leaner), and tell folks they dont process the skills and abilities to possible understand what your doing... Its a slice cut for fuck sakes Daniel. Learned it when I was 13-14 yrs old and have made a couple hundred of them in my life.....

Also been very clear concerning the Dutchman. It is a very unreliable and unpredictable cut that really doesn't have much use in residential treeework....In the woods, swing away if thats what blows your skirt up.

 

[Daniel]

Reconsider away

 

[owScott]

Typical Daniel. Start changing the story (now it should only be used on a front leaner), and tell folks they dont process the skills and abilities to possible understand what your doing... Its a slice cut for fuck sakes Daniel. Learned it when I was 13-14 yrs old and have made a couple hundred of them in my life.....

Also been very clear concerning the Dutchman. It is a very unreliable and unpredictable cut that really doesn't have much use in residential treeework....In the woods, swing away if thats what blows your skirt up.

I am with you. I have messed around with various swing cuts in the woods but not around obstacles. The other day had a big leaner, 48"dbh 80ft, power lines 2 sides. Did i put a rope in it and go for some swing cut? Hell no, climbed it pieced it out, then dumped the stem. Didnt bother making some video and coming on the buzz 1st to discuss it.

 

[Daniel]

It's not a slice cut there's where we have a failure to communicate you simply don't get it.


You can call a double Bow line a bow line or you could call a bowline on a bight a bow line but they're not the same.

it's a different knot .
That's why it has

a different name when you use such imprecise language to define the very complicated techniques that we use there is no possibility of having a intelligent conversation

 

[rico]

If it looks like a slice cut, smells like a slice cut, tastes like a slice cut, and acts like a slice cut, its a fucking slice cut...It certainly ain't complicated Daniel......

We had a chance to have an intelligent conversation and talk about the mechanics of making a slice/salami/butt drop/strangle cut while aloft , and what those mechanics mean to a climber. Who knows, maybe we could have even turned this thread into a learning moment for some, and keep someone from hurting themselves? If only?

 

[Serf Life]

Why post info that people are told not to use? Knowing its going to create controversy then criticize people for disputing its legitimacy. Daniel i have never personally attacked you here only your techniques. Many people here have the same amount of time and experience as you if not more and are still out doing it at a high level. You are taking things most of us already know and repackaging it in a bunch of words and calling it ground breaking technique that only you have the skill to execute. One more thing to note i would hope that you are removing the tree you topped that should be obvious. That statement suggests that you top trees that arent being removed because why would you say that?

Nailed it! Think the Lacey vid you reference utilized a sizwheel not a bypass/dutchman undercut @Daniel but I may misremember.

 

[Daniel]

Yes, you misremembered it. The video showed BOTH a sizwheel and a swing dutchman. Rico was foaming at the with rude and vile language and personal attacks when I showed it. But lost his heart for such vulgar attacks when Pat lacey showed it. Now he's reconsidering. Reminds me of Chip Hildreth's attacks on the vertical snap cut when I showed it here around 2010. He and many others here were attacking it as dangerous, unsafe, unpredictable. Only to find out that once Chip tried it, he realized how well it worked. The only thing is he forgot to apologize and thank me.

I have shown the vertical snap-cut to many arborists over the years, all of whom have used it with great success. while the cut looks dangerous to the inexperienced. it is quite the opposite in that it allows one man with a chainsaw to drop an uprooted leaning tree without the need to climb or rig an unstable tree.

I recently saw a photo in some ad for a training showing the remains of a tree after using the vertical snap cut, so it has caught on. I told all the naysayers here on treebuzz that it was safe reliable and effective, but they went on some righteous rant about how dangerous it was, just the way some here are doing again. And when I replied that it only looks dangerous because you don't have the skill and experience to know better, the personal attacks started. In all that time I have never backed down from my truth. I understand the stangle's limitations and can make the cut work safely within its limitations. When others say they can't and claim its a dangerous cut, the only reasonable conclusion from my perspective is that they lack the skill and experience to do so. So these criticisms are nothing new and my trees are on the ground!

 

[Daniel]

If it looks like a slice cut, smells like a slice cut, tastes like a slice cut, and acts like a slice cut, its a fucking slice cut...

A spear cut is a well-known technique for making a quick cut through small upward growing limbs and uprights, where the bar is angled to cut from the top, just slightly off vertical. The cut is raced through quickly so the piece drops straight down before the top starts to move, which causes the but to slide off the cut, as the piece drops like a stone without rotation. Calling this cut a spear cut is like calling a bowline-on-a-bight a bowline. That would be a mistake. We really need to be precise in our language or there is bound to be miscommunication. This cut uses a hinge and a notch. The notch and back cut are cut on steep angles, similar to a spear cut, but that doesn't make this a spear cut. This cut is called the stangle, which comes from the steep angle to the notch. Please get clear on the above distinctions and use proper terms. Thank you

 

[ppsavage]

Something most mediocre wood cutters don't understand, it's all about the angle of your stangle. This sperate men from boys

 

[rico]

Yes, you misremembered it. The video showed BOTH a sizwheel and a swing dutchman. Rico was foaming at the with rude and vile language and personal attacks when I showed it. But lost his heart for such vulgar attacks when Pat lacey showed it. Now he's reconsidering.

Strange but I don't recall Mr. Lacy using a swinging dutchman in the video in question, and I certainly dont remember myself using any profanity towards you or anyone else in the thread. What I do remember is Pat using a sizwheel and cutting some of his far side hinge.

https://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/pat-lacey.42090/

 

[rico]

A spear cut is a well-known technique for making a quick cut through small upward growing limbs and uprights, where the bar is angled to cut from the top, just slightly off vertical. The cut is raced through quickly so the piece drops straight down before the top starts to move, which causes the but to slide off the cut, as the piece drops like a stone without rotation. Calling this cut a spear cut is like calling a bowline-on-a-bight a bowline. That would be a mistake. We really need to be precise in our language or there is bound to be miscommunication. This cut uses a hinge and a notch. The notch and back cut are cut on steep angles, similar to a spear cut, but that doesn't make this a spear cut. This cut is called the stangle, which comes from the steep angle to the notch. Please get clear on the above distinctions and use proper terms. Thank you

Spear cuts., strangle cuts, dutchmans, Pat Lacy, bowlines, snap cuts, and some dude name Chip.. Your just spinning out now buddy and trying to run from the fact that you came here trolling for some attention and posted up a video of a potentially very dangerous cut. You can call your cut whatever you please Daniel, but it was a slice cut, and performed exactly as a slice cut does. The piece slides off the cut, which pushes the butt forward, which in turn pitches the top/brush/wood back into the tree, and on top of the climber. The bigger the piece the worse the injuries.