DON'T EVEN TRY IT!

Daniel

Well-Known Member
Here's a specialty cut that I use occasionally, but could be quite dangerous if cut improperly.

For the best look, set the playback speed to .25 on youtube.

Here's the description on youtube:

DO NOT try it. This video is for entertainment purposes only. I originally posted this video as unlisted in July 2016. It's a very complex and potentially dangerous cut, which is why I hesitated to show it. The main purpose is to get a top to lean slightly into the lay, then drop like a stone, spearing into the ground. I use this most often when there isn't a proper drop zone to take the entire length of the top. This pine top fits in a relatively tight drop zone. I used a remote trip cut, which is a bit tricky, and not recommended. The tricky part is cutting enough to make sure the piece will move and break the hinge, when the pull line force is applied, but not cut so much that the cut fails before I had a chance to get out of there. When cutting from spikes on rope and saddle, it is important to judge the distance the top must move to make sure all the limbs on the backside of the tree will clear your overhead space, before the top drops. The distance the tree travels before it drops can be adjusted by changing the width of the notch. A wider notch allows the tree to travel a little farther forward before the face closes. After the face closes the top can drop directly, as it appears to here, or hang on for another 5 to 10 degrees before dropping, depending on species and amount of holding wood. It was crucial to match the cuts up properly so there is not the type of overlap that will create a lip for the but to hold up on. So complete understanding and perfect cutting techniques were required. DO NOT try this cut. This video is for entertainment purposes only. This notch is used to get the top moving towards the desired direction of fall. This creates an early separation to allow the butt to drop straight down. In this case it was used to prevent damage to the surrounding trees. Pine limbs are fairly brittle and susceptible to breaking when loaded. This cut can also be used to shorten the length of the fall.



 

rico

Well-Known Member
I would urge any and all climbers to never attempt any type of slice cut on a vertical unrigged top while aloft. Unless of coarse you feel like getting the shit beat out of you, or having your head removed from your body? This is the kind of stuff that gets climbers seriously hurt or worse, so why post this nonsense Daniel?
 

flushcut

Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity Dan if somebody tries your cut and gets hurt or killed are you going to feel responsible because you posted it? Not looking for a fight but just wondering.

I have seen many other reference books citing the salmi/spear cut but none with a remote trip as your cut. I do like it however but I doubt I will use it as it seems a little fickle in the amount of hinge that is needed.
 
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Daniel

Well-Known Member
and the stangle IS NOT a salami cut. you have never seen this cut published before. Its amazing to me how imprecise the mentality of this industry is when it comes to defining our terms!

Ps Rico,
Buckin Billy posts vids of him reaching above his head one handing a rear handle chainsaw with a 24" bar, balancing it like a circus performer, from a ladder with no harness and you applaud him as a guy that knows what he's doing. While I agree that he knows what he's doing in most areas of tree work, that was a very bad example to publish. However, I can only hope that most people have the sense not to imitate such extraordinary behavior. In that case, there were clear and obvious safer solutions.

In the case of the stangle, it's only dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. If that is the case then people should have the sense to not use it. On the other hand, this cut could save the life of someone that would otherwise try to climb above a defect to his peril.

I personally have used this cut many times and have dialed it in as a reliable cut in performance.

People made similar criticisms about the vertical snap cut when I first showed it, only to see it become popularized within the industry. We have seen it save many a man from having to climb a dangerous uprooted leaning tree. Here are some highway workers that caught on pretty quick and sent me their video and their gratitude.

 

rico

Well-Known Member
Just to get you going?

Cabin fever!
So your willing to post up a very dangerous cut simply because your bored and trolling for a reaction? Fucking unbelievable Daniel. Really...

Despite your delusions of being a trend-setter and a true pioneer in the cutting arts, your cut is really nothing more than a slice cut on a vertical/near vertical piece of wood/top which is an extremely dangerous cut to attempt while aloft. The initial downward sliding motion of the butt pushes the the butt forward which in turn can pitch the top back towards the climber. Any backside limbs can and will also pummel a climber to within an inch of his or her life. All and all an extremely dangerous cut to make aloft, and one that should be left to only the extremely skilled. Certainly not a cut the we would want some under-skillled person to attempt on their own.
 
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rico

Well-Known Member
Now that you have received some much need attention Daniel, how about you DO THE RIGHT THING and pull that vid from this forum before it gets someone hurt or killed...
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
so Rico,
Have you ever tried the cut?

You call it nonsense, then say it should be left to only the extremely skilled. It's an advanced technique that is not suitable for the average skill level climber. I give people more credit than you. Every climber makes decisions all day long about what type of cut they have the skill and experience to use safely. Those are life and death decisions we make routinely. I trust you all to make a good decision here. Rico doesn't.

I can make this cut work. As such I AM sure others can too. So this cut could save a life.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
so Rico,
Have you ever tried the cut?

You call it nonsense, then say it should be left to only the extremely skilled. It's an advanced technique that is not suitable for the average skill level climber. I give people more credit than you. Every climber makes decisions all day long about what type of cut they have the skill and experience to use safely. Those are life and death decisions we make routinely. I trust you all to make a good decision here. Rico doesn't.

I can make this cut work. As such I AM sure others can too. So this cut could save a life.
So we can listen to a little more of Daniel's bloviating and self aggrandizement, or we can simply watch the video from a climbers viewpoint. A slice cut is performed on a very small top with a slight head lean, and no backside limbs. Just as predicted the butt is pushed forward as it slides off its cut, which in turn pushes the top back towards the tree. Right where some unsuspecting climber would be standing after finishing this cut. Would you want to be standing there in the pocket as that little top slapped the shit out of you on its way by? Now lets envision using this highly dangerous technique on something a little more substantial, with some limbs on the backside. Hello emergency room.

I am not really sure how it works in your little slice of suburbia Daniel, but men who spend their lives working in the woods around here can make hundreds of slice cuts in their lives, and most are taught to NOT use a slice cut for taking near vertical tops and logs while aloft... Why? Because it gets people maimed and/or killed... A slice cut performed while aloft creates the potential for your top/log to slip between the tree and your flip-line. Catastrophic to say the least. A slice cut performed on a log/top while aloft creates the potential for a climber to have passing brush and wood seriously hurt tor killl them... Good times huh? Now someone can correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe Mr Beranek himself has suggested that using a slice/salami cut on vertical tops and logs is a practice that should be frowned upon.

In typical Daniel Murphy fashion you is once again advocating for practices that do nothing more than create an unnecessarily dangerous scenario downstream, which can and will get folks hurt. Please do us a favor Daniel and take your dangerous, trolling nonsense elsewhere.
 
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Daniel

Well-Known Member
ok, it's beyond your abilities. so much so that you can't even imagine it can be done safely.

that pine had a very tight pocket, which is why I set it up for a remote trip.

on other tops with wider canopies and longer limbs I have just opened up the face to get more forward movement and therefore clearance before the but drops.

I don't promote the practice. just saying I can do it, make it work, keep it safe. you say you can't. we can leave it at that.

race car drivers are not promoting driving cars 150 mph. they are skilled and honed professionals, doing a very dangerous job well. so it is here
 
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rico

Well-Known Member
ok, it's beyond your abilities. so much so that you can't even imagine it can be done safely.

that pine had a very tight pocket, which is why I set it up for a remote trip.

on other tops with wider canopies and longer limbs I have just opened up the face to get more forward movement and therefore clearance before the but drops.

I don't promote the practice. just saying I can do it, make it work, keep it safe. you say you can't. we can leave it at that.

race car drivers are not promoting driving cars 150 mph. they are skilled and honed professionals, doing a very dangerous job well. so it is here
Again we can listen to your fucking nonsense or we can simply let your video do the talking. Your slice cut did in fact force the butt to move forward (multiple feet). That foward movement of the butt did in fact cause the top/brush to pitch backwards towards the tree. The top/brush did in fact hit the tree on its way down...Not really up for debate buddy. So much for your super honed, beyond belief abilities buddy.

We as climbers spend our lives learning and making precision cuts that will hopefully keep moving wood and brush from hitting and injuring us. Now along comes the Murphman advocating for a cut that if used aloft, can and will put whatever is above you right in your fucking lap.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
I can’t watch the video but I imagine it’s a steep humbolt with a backcut about the same angle as the bottom of the face. Cut fast then slow, and as the top commits blast through the hinge spearing the top butt down.
Nothing new, nothing worth while. I’ll very rarely do this on 4-6” Doug fir noodle trees in stands that are too dense to get a top to go ANY OTHER FUCKEN POSSIBLE WAY!

I’d much rather one hand a 395 with a 48” bar and make the cut from a neighboring tree, flapping that saw around like the badass I really am.

You should really take me up on a few drinks on Vaseline alley, if you do you will find there are many ways to get the ego stroking attention you seek. Just don’t make the same mistake I did and go up stairs to the pool tables, I still can’t get that image out of my mind. Or perhaps you’ll be right at home?
 

owScott

Well-Known Member
Jeez, climb higher and do it properly.
Yeah i am with you. Not sure why you would this. Seems like taking a basic situation and complicating it. Also i have been doing snap cuts of all kinds decades before i even seen this guy on the interweb. I get he is doing it for entertainment, wish i had this kind of time to burn farting around. I choose to spend my time doing things right and growing my business not my Youtube following.
 

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