Documenting my hand-sewn eye process

moss

Well-Known Member
It also says "spliced by the experts at rope logic." There's no desire for precision in that description.
It is funny though.

Despite this thread being in the 'Buzz Splicing category sewing as the primary join really isn't splicing in a real world rope use sense. I think when SherrillTree first introduced (at least to the tree industry) machine-made sewn eyes they called it a "splice" to ease the worries of climbers who didn't want to trust the idea. I think it was more of a gentle marketing strategy than factual representation of the construction. This terminology use has continued.
-AJ
 
Yesterday's Tachyon effort - 3 passes/ 175 stitches (which at 75 lb break strength thread is way over 5K lbs) - with a "longer" sewn pattern splice maybe made it a little easier to pack in the thread? Hard as rock now, even before shrink tube.

Thanks again all for all the tips and help . . . .
 

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Christrees

Active Member
Location
New York
I'm documenting the sewing process for an eye I'm working on. Sewing the eye on NE Ropes Tachyon. For this eye I'm pre-tensioning the join with clamps to increase the friction on the finished eye.

Sewn eye documentation

I'll add more photos to the set as the eye is finished.

Materials...

Thread
C-Lon Tex 400 Double bonded nylon, .9mm, 75 lb. dry strength.
Hand-waxed with bees wax, improves handling for hand sewing and increase tensile strength.

Needle
7x3 (ball tip) 180 industrial machine needle (ground down the needle shaft to fit the sewing awl chuck)

Speedy Stitcher sewing awl

Clamping to increase pre-sewing compression
8518712177_b6ab925422_c.jpg


Clamps off, tape retains the compression, basting stitch to capture the tension with thread. White tape is removed as the stitching progresses.
8519825348_25ee6a7d6c_c.jpg


-AJ
[ QUOTE ]
You should also go through the sides to compress the rope, adds a great deal of strength.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that has occurred to me. At this point the finished "splice" is hard as a rock, I did three passes total and the last pass was tough to get the needle through. Pre-compressing with the C clamps made a big difference.

But you are right, I could do the initial basting stitch through the sides, potential is there for an insanely strong sewn eye.

Here's just after I finished the basting pass you can see how much of the compression is retained from the clamping
8523122572_b8bfd54ef5_c.jpg


And then finished after the third pass, muy fuerte, I believe a fair amount stronger than my previous attempts.
8523123132_3bf6bc2da6_c.jpg


I was going fast to make a flight out of town with my rope, could be a little neater but I think the quality is good.
-AJ
Holy shit looks amazing...im just starting reading threw. But cant wait how is all this going for you now? Are you still doing it? And have you tried this on your hitch cord? Thats what i want to do. Thats what brought me to your thread.
 

Christrees

Active Member
Location
New York
Cool.. haha didnt let anything stop ya. Or anyone. ;-]. But shit this was an interesting thread. After first 20. I just skimmed the rest. But after reading this i may try my hand in splicing.
 

Christrees

Active Member
Location
New York
Shit either way i dont have anywhere to break test them actually. Thats why i was thinking to try splicing but shit idk ill have to check around see if i can find somewhere. But thanks for the tread and all of your experience. Good job you know your shit thats for sure.
 

AdkEric

Well-Known Member
Location
Adirondacks
Shit either way i dont have anywhere to break test them actually.

 
Which brings me to something I've been wondering for a while - does anyone have a list (or should we start one) of all the break test facilities/ contractors that are available? Maybe sorted by country or something.
 

AdkEric

Well-Known Member
Location
Adirondacks
Which brings me to something I've been wondering for a while - does anyone have a list (or should we start one) of all the break test facilities/ contractors that are available? Maybe sorted by country or something.
Good idea, and deserving of a dedicated thread.
 
Location
De Pere
Thanks for the shoutout! I do the breaking and I'd be happy to help anyone out. Please feel free to reach out on here or email, brandon@arbsession.com, if you have any questions! I am always willing to chat about results if needed as well.
 

TheTreeSpyder

Well-Known Member
Location
Florida>>> USA
I've never done this and find it simple and fascinating, remember a chat about it long ago w/Nick here.
.
Just tossing out thar that 40# test whatever , would think that is a linear , pure inline pull along longest linear dimension not across minimal axis. So 40# x so many stitches would not be straight multiplier to strength. Certainly 10 more stitches is stronger tho.
.
Linear length of imposed frictions would be factor i'd think,compounding by distance as legs of eye bound to each other. Something Teflon slick might reveal this (as a loss) if need more stitches?
.
Any experiments on 2 separate patches of stitch runs independent vs. 1 single longer run?
 
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Jonny

Well-Known Member
Location
Buffalo
Pretty sure AJ is doing 3 separate passes on all his eyes. I’d like to see the breaking point on his stuff at 1 pass and 2 passes too. Looks great to me.
 
“Any experiments on 2 separate patches of stitch runs independent vs. 1 single longer run?”

I’ve done two separate sewn sections on tree bracing ropes I’ve used to try correct storm damage. Neither one moved, so experiment didn’t show much. But I have started to make my splices longer - the Tachyon splice above is ~ 3 3/4 inches long - I started doing this because it didn’t seem to get rock hard so fast esp. the third pass.
And the recipe I use is the first two passes are continuous and the third is a separate thread - it just gets too long otherwise.
I’ve also started lightly freesoling the thread before shrink tube - it becomes like Teufelbergers coating which they don’t shrink tube over. With the precompression, the thing’s like rock.
 

TheTreeSpyder

Well-Known Member
Location
Florida>>> USA
In many things a double stop/check is better than single.
>> 1 bolt/nail/pin is a pivot, 2 compounds separate pivots to a lock
>>2 half hitches etc.
Not just a safety dual concept of 2 is 1, 1 is none.
>>But rather nothing is 100% efficiency
>>so have full stop with possible 'leakage'
>>then the double damn wham cutting that off too, totally snubbed.
Part of this in rope etc. would be to be more inline too i think.
inline and double sure inline w/o deformation
w/the long serial of the stitching, this may be muted here
>>but is always something i look for and try to weigh out.
.
Another thing i've wondered about these would be a clear glue, non harming to fibers. Not soaked to make overly stiff section
>>stiff sections are more leverage-able against the rope than flexible and can be in key position by load or input effort against.
Stitching seems would provide contact friction that would fight before the thread the loading imposed/ported.
>>then any persisting pull beyond mated frictions would carry on the thread(s).
>>the glue would increase the adhesion handling load quantity before thread takeover
>>the shrink tubing Brocky shows here would protect threads, but also increase the adhesion/friction value (all around )before thread takeover of persisting, lesser persisting load in this model. (and stiffen more).
.
To me as like large fender washers each side and pinch together hard with bolt, so the pinch between on the larger washer area is the hold area not the shank of the bolt, that is 2nd stop check if wide pinched frictions of fender washers don't handle all of load. The bolt leverages and assures the high friction pinch area as the hung board tries to pull out across the bolt hole but stopped by the frictions. Bolt not used as stop, but is 2nd ck if properly tight.
.
Also, my standard Hitch and Bend model is that the Standing Part is the linear input into the Primary Arc, together form hook. As long as this hook stays rigidly in place, knot holds. Receding tensions and rigidity in the rest of knot to a certain extent/model is just to keep the key hook attaching load to host as converts from focused linear input to arc control around, diffusing force around arc from focused linear. The splice threads give positive mating/adhesion , that in turn leverage more friction/adhesion into handling load as a primary w/o more thread stress than preset/no increase type model would fit 'my' knot hook model; and could be solution if just not a player.
.
Holding against vertical linear pull with thread on cross-axis of horizontal would not be fully using thread tensile at this non inline angle. But is in proper position for increasing mating friction/adhesion w/all tensile. The friction/adhesion invoked is in best position for fighting the vertical pull tho.
.
187% USDA more of my crazy theories tho from observation and feel and cross comparisons to other models, looking for consistency across as pivotal rules.
 
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moss

Well-Known Member
“Any experiments on 2 separate patches of stitch runs independent vs. 1 single longer run?”

I’ve done two separate sewn sections on tree bracing ropes I’ve used to try correct storm damage. Neither one moved, so experiment didn’t show much. But I have started to make my splices longer - the Tachyon splice above is ~ 3 3/4 inches long - I started doing this because it didn’t seem to get rock hard so fast esp. the third pass.
And the recipe I use is the first two passes are continuous and the third is a separate thread - it just gets too long otherwise.
I’ve also started lightly freesoling the thread before shrink tube - it becomes like Teufelbergers coating which they don’t shrink tube over. With the precompression, the thing’s like rock.

I like keeping the length of the stitched area 1.75" or less on 11-11.7mm cordage so the 3-pass method is optimal towards that goal.
-AJ
 

moss

Well-Known Member
I like keeping the length of the stitched area 1.75" or less on 11-11.7mm cordage so the 3-pass method is optimal towards that goal.
-AJ
Reason being I do a lot of different choked configurations and I don't want a long rigid area above the eye getting in the way. I think I'm going to try a stitched eye that is "jointed" (ya mon) say two 3/4" inch stitched areas with maybe a half inch space between them so the stitched area above the eye wraps better for a positioning choke on narrow diameter wood.
-AJ
 
I've just used the stitched splices on one end of double end climbing lanyards - the lanyard end (the climbing end has a spliced eye always). So the stiffness (stiff like board, an old friend of my Dad's used to say) and length don't really matter as this leg is around the stem, back to the harness side D's, just. But yeah, for choking a stem as an example, the shorter sewn sections would be better I think too. For choking, I suppose you could build in a "sidedness" by "prebending" the rope/ cord sections around something before taping/ compressing and sewing (less stress??). This whole thread is fascinating to me - sewing, whipping, glueing . . . .
Cheers and Seasons Greetings everybody.
 
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