Documenting my hand-sewn eye process

Winchman

Well-Known Member
Somebody recommended these ball point 135x17 needles in one of the previous posts. They work well with no mods on SpeedyStitcher. I've done 8mm cord using .61mm thread. I also used them with .71mm thread repairing some throwline cubes. I don't think the eye with accommodate any larger thread without some patience.

There's nothing in that listing about them being ball point. How do you know that's what they are?

Has anyone dissected a sewn splice to show how many rope fibers are cut or damaged by the process? It would be interesting to see pictures.
 

Birdyman88

Well-Known Member
Location
Arlington
There's nothing in that listing about them being ball point. How do you know that's what they are?
Well, it's Amazon so you never know until you get it, lol. BTW, I pulled this from my order history, but the pic and numbers on package still match what I received. The ones we got were ball point. I seem to remember that Organ was putting some extra letters or code after the "DPx17" if it had a special point like cutting or sharp. Ours were the standard needle which comes with a round point. I would certainly double check with the seller though. I can tell you that I've lightly bumped myself numerous times with these things and have never broken skin. I have also never heard any signs of fabric ripping.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
View attachment 67573
This is the next type of stitching I’m going to try next, it just takes a lot more thread and cord, and time!
There are a few different methods that I know of, the above type, the multiply passes rock hard kind, the single pass flexible slides some with use known as the Petzl splice mostly, and the Round Perimeter stitching that moss described above.

Is that a single pass lock stitch?
-AJ
 
Moss, Brocky, Birdyman88 and many others on this thread - wanted to say BIG thanks for documenting your sewn eye process and for the link to the needles for the Speedy Stitcher - these needles (Organ 135X17 Walking Foot Industrial Sewing Needle Size 24) worked great (and thanks for the other link). Can anyone recommend a link to the thread(s) they are reliably using please (sorry if I missed this).
Below is yesterday's effort - triple pass buried lock stitching (comments pls?) - it has a coat of Flexsole on the stitching and is ready for shrinktube (crosspost to Tom glued splices thread - https://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/glued-splices.42686/page-2#post-666085 ). Rock solid. Thanks everyone.
 

Attachments

  • sewnsplice.jpg
    sewnsplice.jpg
    353 KB · Views: 31

moss

Well-Known Member
Moss, Brocky, Birdyman88 and many others on this thread - wanted to say BIG thanks for documenting your sewn eye process and for the link to the needles for the Speedy Stitcher - these needles (Organ 135X17 Walking Foot Industrial Sewing Needle Size 24) worked great (and thanks for the other link). Can anyone recommend a link to the thread(s) they are reliably using please (sorry if I missed this).
Below is yesterday's effort - triple pass buried lock stitching (comments pls?) - it has a coat of Flexsole on the stitching and is ready for shrinktube (crosspost to Tom glued splices thread - https://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/glued-splices.42686/page-2#post-666085 ). Rock solid. Thanks everyone.

Looks good! I like to have the stitched area wider so it bites into more of the cordage. Each pass rolls in a little as it compresses the cordage fibers. For the next pass I put the needle in at the halfway point of the cordage width and the third pass slightly outside half the cordage width so it looks more like this:

This is in 10mm EZ Bend static line
28235828339_eb9a2f642f_b.jpg


-AJ
 
AJ thanks - I wondered about going over centerline - and I notice you're using doubled thread above? Is that right?
However, I stayed inside the midline a bit (as in Brocky's pic at #759 above in this thread) except for the ends where I did a short fourth pass (by now things were getting like concrete). Next one will do as you suggest.
Any recommendations on thread - I just used the Treestuff whipping twine?
I was able to have an easier time clamping by putting the doubled over rope into a wooden miter box with clamps on a hardwood stick to compress the rope legs prior to taping as shown in your pictures - worked like a charm.
This splice is 3 3/4" inches long and is now hard as rock, even before the shrink tube - it'll be what I call a "sap" lanyard - I make a bunch of 'em for when I get tired of cleanup in the middle of things.
Stitching eyes is a great way to spend some bench time on our long cold cold winter nights up here. Cheers mate.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
AJ thanks - I wondered about going over centerline - and I notice you're using doubled thread above? Is that right?
However, I stayed inside the midline a bit (as in Brocky's pic at #759 above in this thread) except for the ends where I did a short fourth pass (by now things were getting like concrete). Next one will do as you suggest.
Any recommendations on thread - I just used the Treestuff whipping twine?
I was able to have an easier time clamping by putting the doubled over rope into a wooden miter box with clamps on a hardwood stick to compress the rope legs prior to taping as shown in your pictures - worked like a charm.
This splice is 3 3/4" inches long and is now hard as rock, even before the shrink tube - it'll be what I call a "sap" lanyard - I make a bunch of 'em for when I get tired of cleanup in the middle of things.
Stitching eyes is a great way to spend some bench time on our long cold cold winter nights up here. Cheers mate.

Yep, the stitching compresseses the cordage in so I keep moving out per pass. No doubled thread, you're seeing the tight final pass stitching pattern.

I like the mitre box pre-compression technique, excellent.

Here's the thread spec I use, Brocky and others have posted some quality thread specs as well:
50671181863_0c7e8b34b6_c.jpg


C-Lon Tex 400, .9mm, 75 lb. breaking strength

I wax it w/bees wax, improves handling during sewing, increases strength and UV resistance. I've never had this thread visually degrade over the working life of the sewn eye, cordage wears out sooner.
-AJ
 
Last edited:

moss

Well-Known Member
I used this pre-waxed polyester thread that comes with the Speedy Stitcher to sew a bridge on to my Tree Motion w/Globe 3000 then later with a custom replacement bridge cordage. It's difficult to stuff the .9mm thread into the smaller static bridge cordage especially on the third pass. The Globe 3000 bridge broke at 9500 lbs at the center of the bridge after 4-5 years of use. I think the thread is spec'd in the 40 lbs ABS range.

50672107306_a96d8c50f9_c.jpg


49265400858_ccac330ef3_c.jpg


-AJ
 
Moss, thanks again for your help. I didn't go to a forth pass over half the cordage as the rope was getting uncomfortably tight. I will say also for those posting above, when I've played with this sewing in the past using the stock Speedy Stitcher needle you could hear tearing fibers as you went through fabric sometimes, the last pass especially. Not so with the needles in the link above, not even on the last passes. So not sure if the Organ size 24 needles referred to above are "round point" but they do behave differently and go through the rope fabric really slick.
On durability, I've had some of my earlier sewn stuff on bracing for trees we were trying to straighten/ train after snow damage and even after a couple of years through winters and summer thunderstorm seasons they looked fine when we finlally removed the cabling - rope was a little faded sometimes, but the sewn splices hadn't moved a bit. Unscientific I know, but no way I would abuse climbing equipment like that. Cheers


"Your artistry could look a little more “professional“ if you cut the rope end square, rather than angled!"
I always do that too but I think in my case it's the years and years of single malt . . . . .
 

moss

Well-Known Member
Moss, thanks again for your help. I didn't go to a forth pass over half the cordage as the rope was getting uncomfortably tight. I will say also for those posting above, when I've played with this sewing in the past using the stock Speedy Stitcher needle you could hear tearing fibers as you went through fabric sometimes, the last pass especially. Not so with the needles in the link above, not even on the last passes. So not sure if the Organ size 24 needles referred to above are "round point" but they do behave differently and go through the rope fabric really slick.
On durability, I've had some of my earlier sewn stuff on bracing for trees we were trying to straighten/ train after snow damage and even after a couple of years through winters and summer thunderstorm seasons they looked fine when we finlally removed the cabling - rope was a little faded sometimes, but the sewn splices hadn't moved a bit. Unscientific I know, but no way I would abuse climbing equipment like that. Cheers


"Your artistry could look a little more “professional“ if you cut the rope end square, rather than angled!"
I always do that too but I think in my case it's the years and years of single malt . . . . .
I do 3 passes, it creates sufficient stitch density in a 1.75” run of stitching to more than meet life support break strength. Yep, it would be very difficult to do a 4th pass. Good thing about moving the needle insertion point out a little per pass is the cordage is a hair softer/less compressed.

Can’t be said enough, don’t use leather cutting needles to sew textile fibers!
-AJ
 

moss

Well-Known Member
There's nothing in that listing about them being ball point. How do you know that's what they are?

Has anyone dissected a sewn splice to show how many rope fibers are cut or damaged by the process? It would be interesting to see pictures.

The ball point needles are sharp but they don't have a cutting edge. A needle tip can be examined to verify it is not a cutting needle, it's obvious, looks like a knife edge. When you push a cutting needle through cordage you can hear the fibers being ripped, with a fabric/textile needle you don't.

The textile needles are designed to push fibers aside not cut them. In pull tests on my eyes there is no evidence that the cordage fibers have been cut, the rope always breaks before the sewn cordage area does. The sewn eyes are meeting all the criteria for life support use. Nothing against taking one apart to see if fibers are damaged, it's not a question I need answered.
-AJ
 

moss

Well-Known Member
Hand-sewn eye for a 15' lanyard, cordage is Sterling Tendril 11.1mm. Turned out that it firmed up sooner than usual, after the second pass the cordage was turning into stone. The last pass was really tough, plenty of opportunities to break the needle but I dodged that bullet. I think it's because of the Tendril's construction, a very firm line out of the box. If I ever sew it again I may not pre-compress it. I would still tape it though before sewing, part of what pre-compression does is allow me to line up the two legs of the join as well as possible, they tend to squirm around otherwise while you're sewing ;-)

50691414932_cdcdf3d966_c.jpg



50691325081_185a56dba3_c.jpg

Two passess complete, third/final pass underway from left to right


50691415042_673317dc70_c.jpg

Finished lanyard

-AJ
 

Jehinten

Well-Known Member
Location
Evansville
@moss Interesting product that I just found on treestuff, hand-sewn products. I'm not sure how long they have made this particular item or if there are any other hand sewn eyes on the site. But given the initial reaction to your sewing, I thought it was interesting.


 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Location
LR
@moss Interesting product that I just found on treestuff, hand-sewn products. I'm not sure how long they have made this particular item or if there are any other hand sewn eyes on the site. But given the initial reaction to your sewing, I thought it was interesting.


It also says "spliced by the experts at rope logic." There's no desire for precision in that description.
It is funny though.
 

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Kask Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger Tracked Lifts
Top Bottom