Descending

B

BostonBull

Location
North of Boston
What is the best device out there for fast long descents? 40'-80' at a time. Hitch cord is getting expensive.

Needs to have the ability to stop at any certain point and not have to monkey around with a lock to get it to stay in place, and no figure 8 recommendations please, they wont work due to not being able to lock off without some fuss involved.

DdRT only, no SRT or DRT recommendations please.


Sportjack? Lockjack? Lineboss? ?????????????????
 
Sorry there is no such thing. They all wear depending on how fast you run how much you weigh (hehehe). Always had good run with any of th art jacks, own a spider right now. For you I'm thingking one made of stainless steel this would be the way to make the descenders/ ascender type stuff, you have to pay the price in weight if you want long lasting.
 
when i have a long descent i like to install a f8 revolver above my friction hitch, no need to lock off and takes most of the friction from the hitch.
 
Weight of the device is no issue. Longevity and expense as compared to replacing Beeline/Icetail/etc. Going through a hitch a day minimum right now, sometimes 2.

Should also add that this will be expected to do 30-50 descents a day, and must be able to be installed/retied easliy, i.e. 30-60 seconds
 
yea, sport jack, or spider work well with the crane. I assume it what you mean. Now how we get them guy to make one of Stainless, or Ti.
 
This is where the loss of Storrick's site is felt :)

I know that I've seen descenders that could be adapted to DdRT but I sure can't recall the names or manufacturers.
 
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DdRT only, no SRT or DRT recommendations please.
Sportjack? Lockjack? Lineboss? ?????????????????

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Why no SRT?

The Jacks will wear very fast if used in the manner you describe. If the Lineboss is still made out of steel, that should work.

The best way to reduce wear is to share the load as mentioned so the hitch is not working so hard. There are many ways to do this.

The Rig is a solid work tool with large steel wear surfaces, that should be able to handle that kind of abuse, but as you know, require you to use an SRT setup.

Dave
 
You know what...a Rig could be used DdRT I think.

AS long as the anchor rope comes into the top it doesn't make a difference if the TIP on the crane acts like a redirect, which it is.

Just replace the hitch with the Rig...go low and slow, then go flying!
 
How are you going through a hitch a day? I have been using the same piece of 8mm Beeline as my primary hitch cord for six months now. Probably need to re-dip the ends but other than that it is fine. Are you burning up a cord everyday?
 
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Should also add that this will be expected to do 30-50 descents a day, and must be able to be installed/retied easliy, i.e. 30-60 seconds

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Welcome to my world. Installed in under 8 seconds, though, midline (that includes removing the dual ascenders). Off in under 2.

DdRT, DbRT or SRT, a good descent device should go all ways. Something far more important than flat-out speed is the control of the speed of descent and how well it tends slack while climbing throughout the canopy (up, out, back, down, whatever).

I don't do 30 to 60 descents to the ground per day, though. Up and down in canopies, yea, but not to the ground. That number would depend on how many trees are climbed x how many times I go up and back down to the ground. I'm working alone these days so I do come down regularly, chip, check phone messages, drink/eat & go back up. 12 hour days, you tend to get a lot of action, but I've never actually counted. It all depends.

The ascent is always pretty quick and the descent, the descent is only slow if I come down 2:1 DdRT because the added friction up over the tie-in point adds a variable and I get much poorer control because of it and slower speed, but to be honest I don't generally race down; maybe if I'm in a big pendulum and need to drop to the outside of the brush pile, or am doing a big swing to drop onto a roof or something. Flying down isn't that important to me. KNOWING I can fly down is.

As Tom says, you should check Storrick's site when it's back up, there are dozens of devices that will descend you to the ground as fast as you want to go, but very, very few that tend slack well and allow precision work positioning. That's sort of uniquely a tree guy thing.

If you stay locked into the 2:1 DdRT frame of mind, though, you kinda limit yourself and doubled the amount of line rippin through the device.

The ideal device, IMO, currently does not exist, but I know what it looks like.
 
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You know what...a Rig could be used DdRT I think.

AS long as the anchor rope comes into the top it doesn't make a difference if the TIP on the crane acts like a redirect, which it is.

Just replace the hitch with the Rig...go low and slow, then go flying!

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The Rig, exactly what I was going to suggest, although a Grigri would work as well. I know a number of rec climbers that rappel (DdRT) using the Grigri to save wear and tear on a Blake's hitch, which is a little more critical than wear on a split tail.

However, hitch/device wear is not the only concern IF one intends to use this method 'in tree'. The Grigri allows faster rappelling speed and hence rope is running across the crotch/limb/cambium saver faster and would raise the temperature at the friction point more than a slower hitch descent would.
 
Holly you are correct, I am looking for something for high paced crane work. Hitch cord isnt getting any cheaper.

I am going to check out the Rig, and Jack's. Wish there were more reviews of the LineBoss?


Jesse

Hitch a day, easily. Depending if we are doing a lot of 1 pick trees or not.
 
DDrt french prussik with a figure 8 on the side dee. After choking, hand brake with the right hand and release fp with the left hand, putting the weight into the 8. descend on the 8 with the prussik as a backup. Also, as a climber with heavy saws , you can use this same tech in the tree. I use the tree motion right lower dee with a pirana. Tenex (low melting point) on PI with the only wear being on the piranah. I recommend a gloved hand.
 
http://climbing.about.com/od/climbingknots/ss/HowTieAutoblock.htm

This allows descent without unweighting the hitch. Allows the climber to stop to work on the way down. Is fast to install/ remove. Works DdRT, or DRT, or SRT. A steel figure 8 would last longer than aluminum. Hitch cord shouldn't get burnt if the climber breaks the autoblock when descending. It will auto-stop if let go, in an emergency. Should be pretty easy to manipulate if an AR is needed. The groundman can control the descent speed from the ground with a fireman's belay if the climber can keep the autoblock loose.
 
From Ron "I know a number of rec climbers that rappel (DdRT) using the Grigri to save wear and tear on a Blake's hitch, which is a little more critical than wear on a split tail."

I have experimented with Rads (with grigri, left handled ascender, 2:1 pulley, and right foot ascender to pull rope) on DdRt alot (rec climbs only no work climbs) and have not experienced any issues so far especially with a spliced rope termination and a pvc pipe "separator" on my bridge (to keep hardware from rubbing software). Fast ascents and descents and easy limbwalking especially with friction saver and foot ascender. Why wouldn't I make this a regular work setup other than it being one sided?
 
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From Ron "I know a number of rec climbers that rappel (DdRT) using the Grigri to save wear and tear on a Blake's hitch, which is a little more critical than wear on a split tail."

I have experimented with Rads (with grigri, left handled ascender, 2:1 pulley, and right foot ascender to pull rope) on DdRt alot (rec climbs only no work climbs) and have not experienced any issues so far especially with a spliced rope termination and a pvc pipe "separator" on my bridge (to keep hardware from rubbing software). Fast ascents and descents and easy limbwalking especially with friction saver and foot ascender. Why wouldn't I make this a regular work setup other than it being one sided?

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Are you setting up the RADS on the down rope of the DdRT?

If so, that would give you a 6:1 MA (on the down line) - 2:1 on the DdRT and another 3:1 on the RADS, on the down rope - 2:1 on the legs. That seems like it would be slow to climb on.

I'm probably missing something here.
 
wink.gif
 
I use a Pirana under my hitch. It installs easily, and takes the heat instead of your cordage. Great for crane work, especially if the climber is only setting rigging then descending to the ground. I also use it for descents out of big prune jobs where I'm going down 20-40'.
 
why is everybody so complicated what happened to the partial foot lock belay or a f8 in a traditional drt setup or a cave rack and when is a soft lock on a f8 hard to do and if the soft lock worries you add a mule knot and hard lock the f8? hell you can even use my personal fav a drt munter hitch and a klemheist with your footlock prussic (apply mule knot for the ride up so you don't have to weight the footlock prussic). both are easy to clean from the hoisting apparatus with no splice or knots to get stuck and best of all they are cheap. don blair said of the lock jack "an expensive replacement of a free knot."
 
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