Descending a spar ddrt

Tyler Durden said:
@rico I actually leave Tuesday for the Pacific Northwest. No Beetle trees but I'll be back in some big conifers. Two weeks of contract climbing for South Sound tree should be a blast

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Send SouthSound my love. You guys be safe and play nice. Pics are a must.
 
ClimbMIT said:
That would have to pay well!


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I'll ditto what Tyler said. I got in early on the devastation that is hitting the Sierra's. I was climbing for guys I knew well and was making pretty good $, but after a while I just couldn't do it any longer. Sucked the love out of climbing, and I began to feel the risk was never worth the reward. Fuck that!
 
If it was me climbing, I would pull the bull line up and tie it on the back side with the tail running over the top to minimise rope damage and getting things stuck under the felled logs. Hopefully worst case senerio a fee feet of rope needs to be cut off and the rest of it is still useable, but tall trees often catch up to the pulling line.
I would desend srt with one of the several methods available and safe to use on my climbing line with a retrievable canopy type anchor. If I was forced to go back in time and use Ddrt to decend, I would set a retrievable friction saver, with a notch to hold it if necessary.
 
RBJtree said:
If it was me climbing, I would pull the bull line up and tie it on the back side with the tail running over the top to minimise rope damage and getting things stuck under the felled logs. Hopefully worst case senerio a fee feet of rope needs to be cut off and the rest of it is still useable, but tall trees often catch up to the pulling line.
I would desend srt with one of the several methods available and safe to use on my climbing line with a retrievable canopy type anchor. If I was forced to go back in time and use Ddrt to decend, I would set a retrievable friction saver, with a notch to hold it if necessary.
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RBJ for the win!
 
rico said:
I'll ditto what Tyler said. I got in early on the devastation that is hitting the Sierra's. I was climbing for guys I knew well and was making pretty good $, but after a while I just couldn't do it any longer. Sucked the love out of climbing, and I began to feel the risk was never worth the reward. Fuck that!
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Sounds like you went with your gut feeling...in our line of work especially we need to pay close attention to what our conscience and subconscious mind is telling us.


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rico said:
RBJ for the win!
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This is pretty much the route we are going, the main thing complicating this situation is that I was unable to get spliced life lines longer than 200ft prior to starting the job, which was the reason for discussing different types of anchor points on a spar to descend from
 
aR
RBJtree said:
If it was me climbing, I would pull the bull line up and tie it on the back side with the tail running over the top to minimise rope damage and getting things stuck under the felled logs. Hopefully worst case senerio a fee feet of rope needs to be cut off and the rest of it is still useable, but tall trees often catch up to the pulling line.
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Agree with the positioning over the top.


There is a short gap between the tree committing to the lay, and the line keeping enough tension to whip it hard to the side, to keep it out from under the tree.

I'd normally bail with a munter-hitch from my climbing system termination biner (typically a steel D Fusion biner) on the pull rope, while maintaining DdRT life-support system with my Lanyard all the way to the ground.

Step away from the tree with your climbing line de-rigged, without chance of snafu.


If my rigging rope won't hold 300-400 pounds of my shockloading on descent, how can I trust it to pull over a spar? Something that won't hold 300-400 pounds is tattered and rat-chewed, I think, and easily identifiable.



Try to leave a stub at the descent height, and keep a lanyard on, while walking down the tree really easily.
 
Tyler Durden said:
@rico I actually leave Tuesday for the Pacific Northwest. No Beetle trees but I'll be back in some big conifers. Two weeks of contract climbing for South Sound tree should be a blast

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I think my friend may need a big beautiful maple lightly-reduced, over a pretty open yard.
He has a mondo fir, and some big firs that may have some split limbs, too. 1 mile from my house.
 
southsoundtree said:
aR


Agree with the positioning over the top.


There is a short gap between the tree committing to the lay, and the line keeping enough tension to whip it hard to the side, to keep it out from under the tree.

I'd normally bail with a munter-hitch from my climbing system termination biner (typically a steel D Fusion biner) on the pull rope, while maintaining DdRT life-support system with my Lanyard all the way to the ground.

Step away from the tree with your climbing line de-rigged, without chance of snafu.


If my rigging rope won't hold 300-400 pounds of my shockloading on descent, how can I trust it to pull over a spar? Something that won't hold 300-400 pounds is tattered and rat-chewed, I think, and easily identifiable.



Try to leave a stub at the descent height, and keep a lanyard on, while walking down the tree really easily.
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I don't think he is allowed to decend on his rigging line due to utility rules, unless the rope is brand new never used for rigging.
 
southsoundtree said:
aR


If my rigging rope won't hold 300-400 pounds of my shockloading on descent, how can I trust it to pull over a spar? Something that won't hold 300-400 pounds is tattered and rat-chewed, I think, and easily identifiable.
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I personally try not to use rigging lines for my life support, and especially tag/pull lines. Thats just me.
 
rico said:
I personally try not to use rigging lines for my life support, and especially tag/pull lines. Thats just me.
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That's me, too. Read closely. :)


I use my pull ropes all the time, WHILE ON A DdRT LIFE SUPPORT LINE.
I grant that it's not a DdRT system that will get me to the ground at any time (unlike what I pretty much always have while cutting, every time...an option for an emergency trip to the ground in seconds).


@Scheffa Are you allowed to be on just spurs and lanyard, without a climbing-rope, when not cutting?
Utility contracts are a different ball of wax, and have more specifics. I can see that they might require you to be tied-in with a reaches-the-ground rope when moving about the tree.

I know that its commonplace for people to not be able to reach the ground in an emergency. I think it's all too common that people don't want to carry a climbing rope. Any that jams a DdRT system, puts it dead in the water. A branch or log on the rope, or a little stub, or...



Keeping your DdRT lanyard on the stem with spurs for your feet, while getting the assistance going down of a munter on the pull-rope...
Its like 'french-free' in a way, but downward...
using rated life-support gear in a regular way, plus additional tools for movement.

You're walking down on your spurs, with lanyard well-adjusted. I rely on my lanyard and spurs on every change over while climbing... same life-support all the time. I'm not using a rigging line as life support, just positioning, and taking a bit a weight. I use a munter-hitch because its fast and easy, with gear I have.


Nobody has ever called me Reckless Sean; Safety Sean, more times than I could remember.

I've run crews of rookies, building some of them into real workers, for 15 years.
I used to train AmeriCorps workers to do very remote hazard tree/ timber-stand improvements and trail work in the Sierra, and have had to train my employees because most of them have been rookies or worked like most trees guys have whipped them to work...NOW NOW NOW GO GO GO.

Again, I use good pull (all ropes, actually) for work and play, because, well, it's the smart thing to do. I'm not going to risk breaking a pull rope when making a critical fell near targets, that would be Reckless Sean.



I have almost 2000' of rope, maybe more, in my regular truck at all times. I'm not short on rope.


PS, I can use another biner for my munter hitch, and descend on the pull-rope with a Running-bowline climbing system easily dropping down along with my spur/ lanyard combo.

I try to avoid pulling stuff up trees. My shoulders don't care for it, more than necessary.

If I've been rigging out a tree, I already have carried the pull rope up. After lowering the top, I choke the rope and go.

Friction savers are great for DdRT. SRT is great for not needing friction savers.







On a side note, in the US, "shall" climbers now use a 'climbing rope system' to move about the tree, 'should' they have one, or neither?
 
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I understand your system, but another thing that is very important to me is having the option to hit the ground quickly if needed.

This fall my groundie found a wasps nest just as I had blown a top at 100 ft. I had been stung earlier that morning, so it didn’t take long for those fuckers to sniff me out and find me at 100 ft. They began coming at me hard, so I unclipped my flipline, grabbed my friction hitch, hit the ground going 90 mph, unclipped my system and ran like like a mother fucker.

We won’t talk about the few times I have managed to bury a chainsaw into my flesh while aloft because that would make me look like a dumbass. Promptly instruct groundie to fire up the truck, bomb to the ground, hall ass to nearest Doc in the Box.
 
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@southsoundtree, we must maintain a way of reaching the ground at all times, every time we spit up a tree we must take a lifeline that is long enough for us to reach the ground without re setting.

I wouldn’t descend on a pull rope or rigging rope unless there was no other option, our rules state that in the case of an aerial rescue we can use rigging gear to assist in lowering an injured person to as an absolute last resort.

I have no reason not to trust our rigging gear, we use it regularly for pulling/guiding trees away from conductors or lowering pieces of wood of lines that are far heavier than a worker with tools, in cases of rigging around lines, the ropes integrity carry the same importance as those used for life support
 
Scheffa, are you saying that one must keep the climbing system in place at all times?





Rather than keeping a flipline on, one could keep a choked climbing system in place as one's life-support, using the supplement of a pull rope/ friction for descent.

Rico, this would cover that situation of needing to bail out pronto, and could be easily implemented. As I walk down, ever so lightly on spurs with a munter on the pull rope, its often easy to keep tending a lanyard or climbing line downward, at hip-height.

An extension for the munter hitch-biner, such as a speedline sling, makes it easier to tend when it is farther from your body.





I get that what is safe and what is allowed in certain settings are not always the same.
 
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