Cut and hold near miss

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Here's the results of a cut and hold not miss.

I met this fella and saw his forearm so I said, 'One handing?' and his sheepish reply was, 'Yup...'

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With forearms that size he'd better keep both hands on the saw! LOL.
 
yeah, its unsafe to cut and hold for those who dont have good saw control , i appreciate everyones concern for me but its to no avail, i wont see eye to eye with you guys on this one, im also interested to see how many of you folks follow the same procedure while in a bucket and knot climbing (see what i did there, with the pun, good stuff, its been a long day). either way, thanks for the imput and tom you have a very valid point but i still stand strong.
 
Alright, here is a thought I had in regards to one handing a chainsaw. First let me start by saying that one handing is a technique..plain and simple. It is riskier that two handing, but it is still a viable way of cutting. You have to be aware of the fact that if and when you one hand, there are new elements to consider than when you two hand. Every time someone gets cut from one handing a chainsaw, everyone else points and goes, "see, i told you so". Then the person who got cut is told, "you should never ever one hand a saw...its dangerous". What about all the poeple who cut themselves two handing a saw? They got hurt two handing a saw, should they never use a saw because its too dangerous? What about ground saws? How many people get cut while using a ground saw every year? Is it because they were usuing two hands, or because a saw is naturally a very dangerous tool with no legal/mental reguirements to own/operate one? There are certain techniques that will be used when certain situaions arise. I say as long as you understand the technique and risk that is associated with it, then by all means keep it in your tool bag for use. As for myself personally, I will take an extra second to lanyard in to a better, more secure position to allow for two hand use of a saw while climbing as often as i can, but if i am in a situation in which i feel a one handed cut wins out over a two handed cut (rarely it does), for whatever reason, i will do it. I think the inportant thing is to understand the greater risk associated with and already hazaordous peice of equipment.
 
I'm glad to hear your team leader is ok . I hope he learned from his mistake and becomes a better one hand chain saw user . Did the team leader get hurt because he was cutting with one hand ? or did he get hurt because the team leader cut the limb wrong ? Dee Duh Dee

- One hand chainsaw use is a skill . Learn it , and accidents like this won't happen . If you are cutting and throwing a limb big enough where you need to place a sling on it , than maybe you should lower the limb . My last comment on this in this thread , but I love to argue it in another thread ( like I have in the past )
 
Shigo said...It's all about dosage.

How many doses and how large an individual dose of one-handing is necessary to lead to an accident? If every cut is made one-handed the cutter is more likely to get zapped. Reduce the dose by reducing/eliminating the one-handing. One-handing when it is just as easy to two-hand reduces/eliminates the chance of injury.
 
I think we're going off track a bit. The awakening was a cut and hold incident.

The face that it was one-handed contributes to the near miss, but it could have equally been 2 handed in a lift, with the saw hitting the worker holding the piece.

The issue is the logic behing cut-and-hold

I have never done it. Nor have I damaged property. Except for on straight fells lol
 
hey treefrog, i use a folding corona handsaw, not the best in the world but great for that "in a pinch" role, i used to use it if i ever jammed my saw up making a mouth to help finish the cut along and unjam the saw but now that im better with my 020 it sits in my climbing bag unless im in an ash tree or something along those lines where sucker growth is out of control and its just an easy two stroke cut. i rarely find a need for it though

as far as the cut and hold goes, tom mentioned that it only saves seconds compaired to ropeing down every piece but honestly it saves at least a min on every cut (roped down, rope untied, rope swung back to climber), combine that with at least 50 cuts and you have almost an hour saved, now, not every cut is a cut and hold situation and im all for going big and makeing the ground crew work the ropes but at least 1/4th of a removal can be done personally without the hastle of ropeing.

just my opinion, definatly not my suggestion (especially for the new guys in the trees that may read this)
 
Your right it has wandered a little but the conversation has been good and the points raised very valid, so rolling the snow ball over again (and repeating points made by others).....for me it has always been a question of concentration and awareness, we all use saws everyday (well ok many of us) and in doing so we become very used to being right next to the cutting edge of these powerful tools. I myself use both very big saws 090, and small 020, and have got into the habit of reminding myself that the respect I show to the potential damage the big saw can do has to be matched when I use the climbing saw.

Its almost as if we become oblivious to the damage saws can do to us directly or indirectly (cutting our ropes) and when we do get cut up it comes as more of a shock...oh yeah thats right it'll do that....(yes talking from personal experience)
All we can do is as others have said is to be trained in the proper use of our equipment, get qualified and incorporate into our daily work routine, practices that minimise the risk we face....proper ppe, not allowing one handing to become our common practice, checking our position, checking our ropes, checking again!
We can't eliminate all the risks we face working in trees with saws, but we can always improve the ways we manage those risks.
 
There is your whole problem FT,
Your carrying a raggedy piece of equipment up into the tree with you. What are you doing with that dead weight POC handsaw? Come on, Thats like carrying a dull Poulan up into the tree.
Not only is it probably a dull Corona, but you have to unfold it before you make a cut? Not to be rude, but get with it before you argue this.

I know what one handing a chainsaw is like, i'm pretty good at it too. No cuts anyway.
You obviously dont know what it is like climbing with a brand new silky or equivalent. (At least i assume there is are equivalents.
I climbed for way too long with out carrying a handsaw at all, which is about what you might as well be doing.
 
We must learn to think both logically and chainsaw-logically.
I think maybe both sides should get together and sit at a table and come to a medium . Let's debate it ( pctures/ video) or talk about it for another ten years .
 
Hey Riggs...

You know that this is one of the discussions that comes up at least four times a year on every arbo forum...we could probably go back to the ISA forum and find the first one...ha ha ha!

Never any better resolution though
grin.gif
 
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handsaw = cut and hold
chainsaw + cut & hold = stiches or dismemberment

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Spoken from an expert on stitches!
grin.gif



But seriously, it is scary to watch anyone, regardless of their experience level, use one hand to hold a saw and one hand to hold the limb they just cut.


I would rather never see anyone resort to that particular cutting method, but in tree work, sometimes there might not be a viable alternative.


Just be careful, and keep your eye on the prize, which is coming home after work injury free.

SZ
 
Its interesting you said that because I was just thinking about how many injuries I do come home with on a daily basis. Knicks sctatches, poison Ivy, banged shins smashed fingers and toes bumped heads....
 
Battle scars, I call em'. I'd rather stick to the small ones, though. No chainsaw's gonna get me.

Was watching my team leader cut and holding while crossing arms again today. Stupid, really, as there were no obstacles below.
 
Hey Silverback, maybe you can post some nice pictures of cut and hold accidents. I know you have quite a collection of pics.

I've watched many guys do cut & hold on removals that was a total waste of time. C&H dozens of pieces that should have been 1 cut with a rope attached. On the ground I'd rather have one big limb to drag to the chipper than dozens of C&H pieces.

one cut with 2 hands vs. multiple cuts with one hand?
 
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I like keeping a looprunner with me. I than girth hitch on the piece and than when it cuts it falls away about a foot or two. I helps keep everything seperated and I can take larger pieces easier.

[/ QUOTE ]right on. Mandatory for me on pines, I have a gear sling around my shoulder with 15-20 loops of a few sizes w/biners I can zip line or hand rig some good size pieces safetly, no way I could have done by hand. Found a 300' spool of 1/2 inch military spec webbing rated @ 2000lbs, came to like $.07/ft.
 
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