Crane Tips Over

southsoundtree said:
I wondered similarly.

I'd like input from experienced craners about standing up a limb, directional hinge or straight kerf from the bottom? Boom up? Cable up? Both?
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I've always been on the cutting end of the operation but we will sometimes notch and undercut and other times a straight kerf 85-90% through from the bottom and let the wood tear as its lifted, then finish it off if needed once its vertical.

As for which method and when, I let my crane operator decide that, as its all his once it comes off.
 
I’ve only used a peeling style cut in crane work twice- both cases the limb was resting on property and it was the best way to avoid further damage. Otherwise I was taught to sling and cut so there is no movement when it disconnects from the tree.

This large limb in the photo, it appears there’s just one sling tied in the center, is that what others are seeing too? Pretty nutty!
 
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I do not believe in standing limbs up or tearing wood fibers with the crane. If you estimate the wood weight to be xLbs. What is the force in pounds it takes to stand that up and break the fibers? Nobody can answer that. Cranes are designed for static lifts. They are not prying tools. No snap cuts in crane work and no tearing of wood fibers. It’s wrong. What happens if the fibers separate before you expect? Shock load. What happens if the extra force it takes to stand the limb up exceeds chart? Cranes going over. What happens if it separates mid lift and the butt drops off the cut and drops 15’? Shock load, crane failure, tip over, damage, climber getting hit. Same risks as tip tied limbs just multiplied but a lot of weight. There’s several ways they coulda done that or done it and taken much smaller. I’ll venture to say you’ll Never see me stand up a horizontal limb with a crane. Either as the operator or climber. I know plenty of people do it but does that make it rite?
 
Steve Connally said:
If you estimate the wood weight to be xLbs. What is the force in pounds it takes to stand that up and break the fibers? Nobody can answer that.
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That's a good question and I'd be curious to know the answer. I know in my personal experience there's been a few times where the operator will begin the lift and see that he's pulling harder than he should, so we cut a few more percentages of the overall diameter.

I believe the tearing/breaking fibers is a species specific technique, such as in traditional rigging. When doing traditional rigging some trees you can peel the limbs and others require a notch.

And just for the sake of discussion, as I have no specific numbers, but if leaving the proper amount of wood I don't think it'd make the limb heavier to lift it as the fibers will hold some of the weight until it is vertical. Similar to how a mini skid can lift one end of a log to load into a truck, even if the log is too big for the mini to pick up balanced.
 
Jehinten said:
That's a good question and I'd be curious to know the answer. I know in my personal experience there's been a few times where the operator will begin the lift and see that he's pulling harder than he should, so we cut a few more percentages of the overall diameter.

I believe the tearing/breaking fibers is a species specific technique, such as in traditional rigging. When doing traditional rigging some trees you can peel the limbs and others require a notch.

And just for the sake of discussion, as I have no specific numbers, but if leaving the proper amount of wood I don't think it'd make the limb heavier to lift it as the fibers will hold some of the weight until it is vertical. Similar to how a mini skid can lift one end of a log to load into a truck, even if the log is too big for the mini to pick up balanced.
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I hear what you’re saying. Nobody has the answers to those questions and that why I believe, as do many, that the practice is wrong. The key is to become a better rigger and shy away of practices that you can’t absolutely know the outcome. Minimizing exposure is the key.
 
The potential outcomes of a mini lifting a log on the ground and it going bad aren’t even comparable to having a mishap with a crane. There are better ways to skin the cat.
 
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Steve Connally said:
The potential outcomes of a mini lifting a log on the ground and it going bad aren’t even comparable to having a mishap with a crane. There are better ways to skin the cat.
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With the disclaimer I've never done crane work...
Once you decide "I won't do ________ " for safety reasons, I'm convinced we'll find there is always another way.

I haven't one-handed a chainsaw in 4-5 years. I'm not saying nobody else ever is allowed to (we'll, if you are working for me, I'll say that), but I'm saying I've divided we won't. So far there hasn't been a circumstance where there isn't another way to do it. This is not a one-handing debate - there is nothing left of that horse to beat. It is just my own example of what you just said "There are better ways to skin the cat."

Is it less efficient? Probably.

How long did it take the to get that crane off of the ground? How many years of smaller picks does that account for?
 
Reach said:
That pick was seriously overboomed, it should not have swung away from the crane like it did. That almost certainly caused the crane to tip.

When standing up a limb, I like a nice shelf, with a long shelf to allow the piece to sit for a while before it lifts off. Alternately, a hinge works, but it has to break at the right time and the wood doesn’t always cooperate. It can get exciting if it breaks early.

As for the crane motions necessary to stand the limb up, that depends on the orientation of the crane to the pick. Sometimes it’s mostly booming up, sometimes it can be boom down while cabling up. There can be some swinging too, all depends on the pick.
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I watched the video a few times, I’m uncertain if the crane op was swinging the limb away of if the crane was slowly tipping over. It looks like to me the crane op was trying to get away from the climber and get the load/boom from over the houses.
 
ATH said:
With the disclaimer I've never done crane work...
Once you decide "I won't do ________ " for safety reasons, I'm convinced we'll find there is always another way.

I haven't one-handed a chainsaw in 4-5 years. I'm not saying nobody else ever is allowed to (we'll, if you are working for me, I'll say that), but I'm saying I've divided we won't. So far there hasn't been a circumstance where there isn't another way to do it. This is not a one-handing debate - there is nothing left of that horse to beat. It is just my own example of what you just said "There are better ways to skin the cat."

Is it less efficient? Probably.

How long did it take the to get that crane off of the ground? How many years of smaller picks does that account for?
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Great point. I can promise you another method would have been more efficient. Lol
 
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ATH said:
With the disclaimer I've never done crane work...
Once you decide "I won't do ________ " for safety reasons, I'm convinced we'll find there is always another way.

I haven't one-handed a chainsaw in 4-5 years. I'm not saying nobody else ever is allowed to (we'll, if you are working for me, I'll say that), but I'm saying I've divided we won't. So far there hasn't been a circumstance where there isn't another way to do it. This is not a one-handing debate - there is nothing left of that horse to beat. It is just my own example of what you just said "There are better ways to skin the cat."

Is it less efficient? Probably.

How long did it take the to get that crane off of the ground? How many years of smaller picks does that account for?
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The saying is ‘there’s more than one way to skin a cat’

I’m being a pedant, but if you’re going to use truisms/sayings, they have to be right or you’re misusing them.
 
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Mick Demosey said:
The saying is ‘there’s more than one way to skin a cat’

I’m being a pedant, but if you’re going to use truisms/sayings, they have to be right or you’re misusing them.
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A) I was quoting @Steve Connally ...
B) After further thought, he is not wrong. I don't know if he intentionally misquoted but let's assume so - tonight the circumstances. Oftentimes if there is more than one way to do it, the implication is that some are better than others. Therefore if there is more than one way to skin a cat, there is a better way to skin a cat.
C) if we are being pedant...there are more ways than one to skin a cat
 
ATH said:
A) I was quoting @Steve Connally ...
B) After further thought, he is not wrong. I don't know if he intentionally misquoted but let's assume so - tonight the circumstances. Oftentimes if there is more than one way to do it, the implication is that some are better than others. Therefore if there is more than one way to skin a cat, there is a better way to skin a cat.
C) if we are being pedant...there are more ways than one to skin a cat
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I didn't quote or misquote. I just typed what was in my head. Had I anticipated a grammar or writing lesson, I would have had my wife proof read the post first.
 
ATH said:
A) I was quoting @Steve Connally ...
B) After further thought, he is not wrong. I don't know if he intentionally misquoted but let's assume so - tonight the circumstances. Oftentimes if there is more than one way to do it, the implication is that some are better than others. Therefore if there is more than one way to skin a cat, there is a better way to skin a cat.
C) if we are being pedant...there are more ways than one to skin a cat
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No, I am sure the correct phrase is ’there is more than……’

Don’t mind me, just being an arse.
I love sayings like that, they convey something universal that we all understand.
Even if the imagery is a bit graphic.
 
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