Covid Close To You

The problem with Omicron is not that it is more deadly, or even as deadly. The problem is that it is the most transmissible and quite simply, the more time this virus gets to spend in human hosts, the more it will continue to mutate and change. This means more variants with different characteristics like Delta which has proven to be quite dangerous to vulnerable people. It also makes it harder to have a vaccine that provides blanket protection when you have tons of variants. It is likely that the Omicron variant wouldn't even exist if everyone who had access to the vaccine had opted to get it at their first opportunity, and this continues to be the case right now. It was first detected in South Africa but that's only because that country has been better about testing and reporting to the WHO, and the result was travel bans and sanctions for that part of the world. This ends up creating a disincentive to other countries to test and report new variants because they can't economically handle being sanctioned by big economies like the US. This is a failure of the Biden administration but I have no doubt that whatever party or person had been in office would have done the same thing because the optics of doing something that people THINK is protective of our country is more appealing politically than explaining the nuances of solving this problem to a bunch of knuckleheads who don't have the capacity to hold complex ideas in their heads.
Thank You for the explanation
I value your opinion more than anyone else in this matter because I know you as a truthful person and not influenced by political or financial gains

Thank You
@Njdelaney
 
...
It is likely that the Omicron variant wouldn't even exist if everyone who had access to the vaccine had opted to get it at their first opportunity, and this continues to be the case right now...

We should all be thankful that it does exist. It is how viral mutations would normally change as has been proven throughout history.

There actually is a far greater concern with the over use of 'leaky' vaccines, which also has been proven.

 
one of the interesting realizations I had in SA was how much more in your face covid was. here the old people are shuffled into nursing homes to die. there they live with their families. so they all have seen the death in person and had to deal with being turned away from overrun hospitals when they tried to find care for them. Here, it is just heard about on the news which isnt trusted. for many people here it is just an abstraction whereas there, it has been very real.
 
What confuses me is the volume, both in noise and bulk, of anti-vax attitude is about equal to support from fans of Iver.

We have shots and boosters available here for free too. The stats seem to backup the position that being vaxed will make a possible infection easier and less damaging.

Why the heck would anyone try Iver? Especially if they aren't expecting equal research and results as there is for the C19 vaxs. The Iver attitude isn't consistent.

If the choice were Iver or nothing...well..then...different story but that isn't what we have here.

The argument does seem too dang political and non-scientific.
There is a 28 page thread at the treehouse on Ivermectin vs vaxxines...
lots of de-rails and a lot of well-presented articles on ivermectin...

As usual Tom, you and I see things completely differently. Why in God's name would I ever take a totally experimental vaxxine made by greedy, serial killing, felons (called big pharma), when my odds of having a serious health consequence from the virus is minuscule and the long term risk of the vaxxine is completely unknown?
As it turned out I got covid19 in early November. I would have never known I had anything except a lingering cough if I didn't lose my sense of smell, which has since come back.

here are a few links if you are interested and open-minded enough to look into a different viewpoint:



Today we're talking to Dr. Pierre Kory, president of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance, who has dedicated much of his time to spreading accurate information about COVID and ways to treat the virus. Specifically, Dr. Kory is adamant about correcting the record on ivermectin, which the mainstream media has dubbed nothing more than "horse dewormer." However, the situation is much more nuanced than that, and Dr. Kory explains how the drug works and how it interacts with COVID. We also discuss the deep corruption in the medical industry and the coordinated effort from these major companies to spread disinformation about ivermectin and suppress its use. *Disclaimer: The content of this clip does not provide medical advice. Please seek the advice of local health officials for any COVID-19 and/or COVID vaccine-related questions & concerns



and plenty more over at the tree house:
 
What is mysterious to me isn't the effectiveness of one treatment or the other. The mystery is the attitude of anti-vax/pro Iver people who seem quick to line up against anything coming from 'the other side'. I hear so much about the unknowns of the vax but the Iver-crowd will brush aside any research or writing that questions the value of Iver.

What I'n seeing is sociology not biology in the reactions.
 
but the Iver-crowd will brush aside any research or writing that questions the value of Iver.
There isn't much in that regard Tom. The vast majority of published studies and more importantly the met-analysis all show ivermectin to be extremely effective, especially if given early.


Conclusions:​

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

There are also plenty of shenanigans that don't pass the sniff test around the suppression of ivermectin and other cheap and effective treatments. Take for example the English meta-analysis by Andrew Hill:

Hill claims that his conclusion was replaced by his superiors. Dr Kory and others claim that the replaced conclusion is a misrepresentation of the results/data.

Then you have a lot of frontline doctors that say ivermectin saves lives. They are the ones treating these patients and have seen the results with their own eyes. There are a lot of them and they are taking to social media to protest the policies that are costing lives (some say as much as 85% of deaths in the US could have been prevented). If you doubt that number ask yourself why the US has the HIGHEST death rate per capita in the world.

And then there are the atempts to prevent the use of ivermectin by doctors, which makes no sense given it has a 40 year history of safe use. And the facts that the 6 poorest countries in Africa that happen to use ivermectin as a weekly preventative of parasites also have the lowest death rate in the world from covid. You stand 22x the chance of dying from covid in the US as you do in those 6 countries. It goes on and on.

You can certainly follow the money. My MD happens to be my best friend from HS. He offered to prescribe monoclonal antibodies, claiming they would reduce the chances of me going to the hospital, while he refused to write a script for ivermectin. The monoclonal antibodies cost upwards of 4-5,000 while the ivermectin costs $25. I declined the antibodies and took the horse paste which cost around $12.
 
The problem with Omicron is not that it is more deadly, or even as deadly. The problem is that it is the most transmissible and quite simply, the more time this virus gets to spend in human hosts, the more it will continue to mutate and change. This means more variants with different characteristics like Delta which has proven to be quite dangerous to vulnerable people. It also makes it harder to have a vaccine that provides blanket protection when you have tons of variants. It is likely that the Omicron variant wouldn't even exist if everyone who had access to the vaccine had opted to get it at their first opportunity, and this continues to be the case right now. It was first detected in South Africa but that's only because that country has been better about testing and reporting to the WHO, and the result was travel bans and sanctions for that part of the world. This ends up creating a disincentive to other countries to test and report new variants because they can't economically handle being sanctioned by big economies like the US. This is a failure of the Biden administration but I have no doubt that whatever party or person had been in office would have done the same thing because the optics of doing something that people THINK is protective of our country is more appealing politically than explaining the nuances of solving this problem to a bunch of knuckleheads who don't have the capacity to hold complex ideas in their heads.

Isn't Omicron the best possible thing that could happen? We get a version of Covid that gives you immunity to further infections that is 10X (or perhaps much more) stronger than the short lived gene therapy treatments currently available.

If true, Omicron has extremely low morbidity and provides immunity at least an order of magnitude stronger than the "vaccines". Plus from what I have read, it is long term immunity versus months.

BTW, I'm vaccinated.
 
This is probably the best resource page for information that supports the use of Ivermectin

 
As for calling Ivermectin an alternative to "Big Pharma", let's remember that Merck, who created Ivermectin, is also Big Pharma.
What exactly is your point? Ivermectin has been public domain for 25 years. No big Pharma owns the patent anymore. Anyone can make it, and they do. $1.50 per dose means no major news outlets sponsored by Big Pharma for Ivermectin.
 
This is probably the best resource page for information that supports the use of Ivermectin

Why do you put faith in the FLCCC?

In November 2021 the Journal of Intensive Care Medicine retracted a paper written by Kory, Marik, and others. The retraction was triggered when it was found the paper misreported the mortality figures of people treated for COVID-19 with the FLCCC's "MATH+" protocol, falsely making it appear to be an effective treatment.
 
There isn't much in that regard Tom. The vast majority of published studies and more importantly the met-analysis all show ivermectin to be extremely effective, especially if given early.


Conclusions:​

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

There are also plenty of shenanigans that don't pass the sniff test around the suppression of ivermectin and other cheap and effective treatments. Take for example the English meta-analysis by Andrew Hill:

Hill claims that his conclusion was replaced by his superiors. Dr Kory and others claim that the replaced conclusion is a misrepresentation of the results/data.

Then you have a lot of frontline doctors that say ivermectin saves lives. They are the ones treating these patients and have seen the results with their own eyes. There are a lot of them and they are taking to social media to protest the policies that are costing lives (some say as much as 85% of deaths in the US could have been prevented). If you doubt that number ask yourself why the US has the HIGHEST death rate per capita in the world.

And then there are the atempts to prevent the use of ivermectin by doctors, which makes no sense given it has a 40 year history of safe use. And the facts that the 6 poorest countries in Africa that happen to use ivermectin as a weekly preventative of parasites also have the lowest death rate in the world from covid. You stand 22x the chance of dying from covid in the US as you do in countries. It goes on and on.

You can certainly follow the money. My MD happens to be my best friend from HS. He offered to prescribe monoclonal antibodies, claiming they would reduce the chances of me going to the hospital, while he refused to write a script for ivermectin. The monoclonal antibodies cost upwards of 4-5,000 while the ivermectin costs $25. I declined the antibodies and took the horse paste which cost around $12.
There isn't much in that regard Tom. The vast majority of published studies and more importantly the met-analysis all show ivermectin to be extremely effective, especially if given early.


Conclusions:​

Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.

There are also plenty of shenanigans that don't pass the sniff test around the suppression of ivermectin and other cheap and effective treatments. Take for example the English meta-analysis by Andrew Hill:

Hill claims that his conclusion was replaced by his superiors. Dr Kory and others claim that the replaced conclusion is a misrepresentation of the results/data.

Then you have a lot of frontline doctors that say ivermectin saves lives. They are the ones treating these patients and have seen the results with their own eyes. There are a lot of them and they are taking to social media to protest the policies that are costing lives (some say as much as 85% of deaths in the US could have been prevented). If you doubt that number ask yourself why the US has the HIGHEST death rate per capita in the world.

And then there are the atempts to prevent the use of ivermectin by doctors, which makes no sense given it has a 40 year history of safe use. And the facts that the 6 poorest countries in Africa that happen to use ivermectin as a weekly preventative of parasites also have the lowest death rate in the world from covid. You stand 22x the chance of dying from covid in the US as you do in those 6 countries. It goes on and on.

You can certainly follow the money. My MD happens to be my best friend from HS. He offered to prescribe monoclonal antibodies, claiming they would reduce the chances of me going to the hospital, while he refused to write a script for ivermectin. The monoclonal antibodies cost upwards of 4-5,000 while the ivermectin costs $25. I declined the antibodies and took the horse paste which cost around $12.
Once again someone is linking pro ivermectin met-analysis that is citing deeply flawed sources-

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w

https://www.theguardian.com/science...vid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns
 
I liked this thread when it was actually about the effects this pandemic was having on us and those we are close to...

Do you honestly believe that any part of what is being discussed here did not, or will not in the future, have an effect on you and others you care about?

What makes this subject taboo to openly discuss? As tree workers, we should understand better than most, that always and never (closing the mind to possibilities) are tuff words to live by.
 
what makes you trust that anymore than you trusted the science when the experts said two weeks to flatten the curve or there is no way this could have come fromm a lab. two retracted articles from the Lancet later and as clear a trail to follow the money as there has ever been.

Your faith in big pharma propaganda is surprising given your otherwise independent lifestyle
 

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