Contract Climbing-Questions

So my next question is the pill popping day climbers will charge a lot less than I would want. How would I get the average service to pay my rate when they can get Johnny addict at half the price? Or maybe those aren't the clients I want? Unfortunately that seems to be the majority of the industry around here.
 
Sounds like a good plan Steve. Just make sure you know what your expenses will be so you can set your rates accordingly. I'm betting you won't be climbing much after getting a spider lift. And why give them the option to have you climb only at a cheaper rate and the lift sits at home making you nothing. SELL your self with the lift as being more productive than climbing alone and cheaper for them in the long run.
 
Steve Connally said:
So my next question is the pill popping day climbers will charge a lot less than I would want. How would I get the average service to pay my rate when they can get Johnny addict at half the price? Or maybe those aren't the clients I want? Unfortunately that seems to be the majority of the industry around here.
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Since that's the majority you should easily be able to set yourself apart from them. You might charge more but you can also do more then they can and reliably. They might use them for the easy ones with no targets but you need to be able to do the ones that the average guy can't. The stuff that's way over the house or in really tight spaces. It's tough to find that sweet spot in pricing. If you don't charge enough you'll never get ahead but not getting enough work from being priced to high can kill you too.
 
Steve Connally said:
So my next question is the pill popping day climbers will charge a lot less than I would want. How would I get the average service to pay my rate when they can get Johnny addict at half the price? Or maybe those aren't the clients I want? Unfortunately that seems to be the majority of the industry around here.
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Your going to have to sell yourself. Show potential companies what you bring to the table that the pill poppers don't. Your skills, your technical removal skills, your pruning techniques, you adhere to industry standards, you are cpr and first aid certified, etc. List out all the tools that are available for use at your daily rate. All those things have to be spelled out to potential companies you will climb for. You might have to take some time to educate them on why some of the things you have are going to get jobs done faster.
I could use a guy like you a few days a week all summer long to keep up with work flow. I wish more contract climber were skilled around here and not pill poppers either.
 
Steve Connally said:
So my next question is the pill popping day climbers will charge a lot less than I would want. How would I get the average service to pay my rate when they can get Johnny addict at half the price? Or maybe those aren't the clients I want? Unfortunately that seems to be the majority of the industry around here.
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Those people are typically unreliable, don't treat anything of anyone's with any respect, suck to work on site with, and tend to make sketchy decisions. I dont think it would take too many times of working for different people before they all would rather be using you rather than some other gypsy climber.
And I believe the companies that have a problem with your price or regard for safety are the people you might decide are not worth the money to work with.
I would talk to some landscape companies too if I was you, they all have trucks for debri and many have chippers/can rent them. do their aerial work and maybe you can use them to chip some brush from pruning jobs you sell for yourself?
Good luck Steve
 
The more professional of a process you make seems to have helped me. In that I mean they look at my quote form, I give them a clear up front rate also as stated previously I take of people's property and things. Also top not gear well maintained helps too. Also need to borrow nothing have your own big saw 661 or something that size. This helps to keep the line clear as to you being a sub.
 
Steve Connally said:
So my next question is the pill popping day climbers will charge a lot less than I would want. How would I get the average service to pay my rate when they can get Johnny addict at half the price? Or maybe those aren't the clients I want? Unfortunately that seems to be the majority of the industry around here.
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I think you answered your own question lol
 
I did answer my own question Jimmy but there seems to be more of the guys who I wouldn't want to work with than would. I guess the key here is will this solve my frustration with who I work with and for? Am I trading apples for apples? Will I come home at the end of the day saying, man those guys sucked? Will I find the satisfaction I am seeking working for a bunch of different clients or am I better to try to find an outfit to work with day in and day out, where I am happy? That's basically what I'm looking for. I want to be happy at work. I don't know if sinking 90k into myself will make me happy or just change the shape of the frustration I feel day in and day out. I want to work for some of the treebuzz type guys. I wanna work for some skilled climbers where we can learn and share. I wanna work where I can learn more about being an arborist not just a climber. I want to feel part of something bigger, not just a guy who makes money for the other guy. I want to be a team member. Now I just don't know if being a contractor will bring me the satisfaction I want. I also just don't know if this industry in my area can support this idea. Most climbers make around $20 to $25hr tops. I would be asking for double that. Do I have the production skills to match a $50hr rate? I'm not so sure. This isn't the northeast or the PNW. It's different down here. We seem to be in a pocket of removal based tree work. It's not overly progressive. This is a huge decision for me and I don't know how to get the answers before I jump off the deep end. I could self fund this tomorrow so I'm not worried about a loan. I just want to be able to pay myself back and have satisfaction at the same time.
 
Steve Connally said:
I did answer my own question Jimmy but there seems to be more of the guys who I wouldn't want to work with than would. I guess the key here is will this solve my frustration with who I work with and for? Am I trading apples for apples? Will I come home at the end of the day saying, man those guys sucked? Will I find the satisfaction I am seeking working for a bunch of different clients or am I better to try to find an outfit to work with day in and day out, where I am happy? That's basically what I'm looking for. I want to be happy at work. I don't know if sinking 90k into myself will make me happy or just change the shape of the frustration I feel day in and day out. I want to work for some of the treebuzz type guys. I wanna work for some skilled climbers where we can learn and share. I wanna work where I can learn more about being an arborist not just a climber. I want to feel part of something bigger, not just a guy who makes money for the other guy. I want to be a team member. Now I just don't know if being a contractor will bring me the satisfaction I want. I also just don't know if this industry in my area can support this idea. Most climbers make around $20 to $25hr tops. I would be asking for double that. Do I have the production skills to match a $50hr rate? I'm not so sure. This isn't the northeast or the PNW. It's different down here. We seem to be in a pocket of removal based tree work. It's not overly progressive. This is a huge decision for me and I don't know how to get the answers before I jump off the deep end. I could self fund this tomorrow so I'm not worried about a loan. I just want to be able to pay myself back and have satisfaction at the same time.
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Yup, you got some things to figure out. These are all good questions and things to consider before you jump in.
 
If your looking for less stress and frustration at work I would not recommend going the sub contractor route. In my experience it brings lots of new difficult and frustrating stituations, and that's not talking about the tree portion of things. Imagine dealing with 10 or 12 of your current bosses then working up a schedule that works for the both of you. Then having them call you when your half way to the job site and tell you the jobs been cancelled, or insist you do a half hour job in the rain and but wont pay for the time you bill because wiping down and drying off your gear and hanging your ropes wasn't part of the job even though you clearly explained it ahead of time ect ect. Or you show up to a job site and they want you to top a tree, then get really pissed at you for telling the home owner why they should not top trees and then want to cancel the job.
 
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I still do a little bit of subbing and it's almost always the dangerous nasty stuff way out over the house. It's usually the stuff that their guys in house are not capable of doing and they don't own enough rigging equipment to make it happen. I charge $125 an hour for me and my bucket, saws, and rigging gear. Some jobs I'll only do with my ground guy and get $175 an hour with him.
 
How do you handle it when guys just simply refuse to pay, or pay less than what you correctly billed them for, as you mentioned earlier? Small claims court? Or just eat it and never, ever work for the guy again?

Thanks in advance for any answers you choose to provide.

Tim
 
TimBr said:
How do you handle it when guys just simply refuse to pay, or pay less than what you correctly billed them for, as you mentioned earlier? Small claims court? Or just eat it and never, ever work for the guy again?

Thanks in advance for any answers you choose to provide.

Tim
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This is where a really good signed contract comes into play the two times I have had to go to court it was quick and easy. Without the signed quote I am unsure if it would have been that simplistic in the court room.
 
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