Compact Bulldog Bone

[123Craig]

Thanks everyone for their input - there's some great ideas for me to consider.

1. On the main issue - unfortunately this is a big disappointment to me, and it's nobody's fault. The Bulldog Bone is designed to work on ropes other than the ones I'm trying to make it work on. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place on this. I can't see my boss replacing the 10 or so ropes we have (mostly blue streak) just for my fancy new climbing device (he has too many bigger things to deal with - jobs, machinery, finances), so the only option for me is to get the right rope for it - which leaves me no option but to take that rope with the bone every time. No problem you would say. Problem is if you are leaving ropes in trees/stems for whatever reason (pulling it over/tag line, ect) - I'm always going to have to take that extra rope up with me for that purpose. I know there is some out there that say never mix rigging and climbing ropes (ie, don't climb on rigging, and vice versa) - while I agree that for the extreme ends of climbing and rigging - you should use different types of ropes - for general (un-extreme) use you can use them for both purposes. Another option would be to get the Hitch Hiker - great product, but it's not the Bone. We do mostly removals and climbing is just one part of what we do; obviously in this case, we can do a lot from the ground, next in the arsenal is the bucket truck (climbers don't sneer - it's an amazing tool) - if these 2 are not options, then we climb.

2. I may reverse the Bone then.

3. Thanks for that great tip TimBr - that's a nice little trick I didn't know. While that would work - I'd prefer less bits of string around (and one less device in the system) - I'd also need to keep replacing it (natures elements would wear it down). That's also a cool idea using the biner beneath the Hitch Hiker - I'll keep it in mind.

Gordon that sounds really good that an enlarged Teardrop hole could accommodate a Revolver gate - I'll give it some consideration before requesting one made and ordered.

4. I'm not going to modify the bottom of the Bone (for less friction) at this point (till I figure out the rope issue).

5. Thanks for the input on the Cotters - now I know the exact size and type to get. I'll also take the spares I have to compare them before buying.

Thank you Gordon and everyone for your help. I'll give the rope issue some thought now.

 

[knothead]

Thanks everyone for their input - there's some great ideas for me to consider.

I'm always going to have to take that extra rope up with me for that purpose. I know there is some out there that say never mix rigging and climbing ropes (ie, don't climb on rigging, and vice versa) - while I agree that for the extreme ends of climbing and rigging - you should use different types of ropes - for general (un-extreme) use you can use them for both purposes. Another option would be to get the Hitch Hiker - great product, but it's not the Bone. We do mostly removals and climbing is just one part of what we do; obviously in this case, we can do a lot from the ground, next in the arsenal is the bucket truck (climbers don't sneer - it's an amazing tool) - if these 2 are not options, then we climb.

1) Do I take that to mean you climb on your rigging rope and rig on your climbing rope?

Mark

 

[macswan]

Madness. That is just not good policy. Nothing personal, no soap box. I just think that is a bad idea. Using life support for things other than life support is just not wise.

 

[DSMc]

.... Another option would be to get the Hitch Hiker - great product, but it's not the Bone....

Hahaha! Now that is a good option! But seriously, you are making this way too complicated. Have your boss buy just one of the many ropes that are known to work well with the BDB and climb on it. Get the feel of how it works and let anyone else in the company, including the boss try it. You don't need any other ropes to complete that task. With exposure, it will either be a tool for you and something your boss is willing to support or not.

 

[macswan]

Hahaha! Now that is a good option! But seriously, you are making this way too complicated. Have your boss buy just one of the many ropes that are known to work well with the BDB and climb on it. Get the feel of how it works and let anyone else in the company, including the boss try it. You don't need any other ropes to complete that task. With exposure, it will either be a tool for you and something your boss is willing to support or not.

I believe he was saying he didn't want to bring a tag line/ rigging line as well as his climb line. Because generally they are interchangeable. But I could be wrong.

 

[DSMc]

I think that you are right, Mac, but that doesn't change my post. If he is using his climbing line, now for light tag line work, he can do the same with the new line. I'm not condoning that, just saying it will only take one new line that can do the same thing and work with the BDB.

 

[MikePowers321]

Thanks everyone for their input - there's some great ideas for me to consider.

1. On the main issue - unfortunately this is a big disappointment to me, and it's nobody's fault. The Bulldog Bone is designed to work on ropes other than the ones I'm trying to make it work on. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place on this. I can't see my boss replacing the 10 or so ropes we have (mostly blue streak) just for my fancy new climbing device (he has too many bigger things to deal with - jobs, machinery, finances), so the only option for me is to get the right rope for it - which leaves me no option but to take that rope with the bone every time. No problem you would say. Problem is if you are leaving ropes in trees/stems for whatever reason (pulling it over/tag line, ect) - I'm always going to have to take that extra rope up with me for that purpose. I know there is some out there that say never mix rigging and climbing ropes (ie, don't climb on rigging, and vice versa) - while I agree that for the extreme ends of climbing and rigging - you should use different types of ropes - for general (un-extreme) use you can use them for both purposes. Another option would be to get the Hitch Hiker - great product, but it's not the Bone. We do mostly removals and climbing is just one part of what we do; obviously in this case, we can do a lot from the ground, next in the arsenal is the bucket truck (climbers don't sneer - it's an amazing tool) - if these 2 are not options, then we climb.

2. I may reverse the Bone then.

3. Thanks for that great tip TimBr - that's a nice little trick I didn't know. While that would work - I'd prefer less bits of string around (and one less device in the system) - I'd also need to keep replacing it (natures elements would wear it down). That's also a cool idea using the biner beneath the Hitch Hiker - I'll keep it in mind.

Gordon that sounds really good that an enlarged Teardrop hole could accommodate a Revolver gate - I'll give it some consideration before requesting one made and ordered.

4. I'm not going to modify the bottom of the Bone (for less friction) at this point (till I figure out the rope issue).

5. Thanks for the input on the Cotters - now I know the exact size and type to get. I'll also take the spares I have to compare them before buying.

Thank you Gordon and everyone for your help. I'll give the rope issue some thought now.

Buy a new rope specifically for climbing and rig with your blue streak all day. If you are rigging, you should have 2 lines up there anyways. Always have a bail out line. That hornets nest is right above your head. What to do now?

Bone is too good of a device not to purchase a new rope

 

[Jem4417]

Thanks everyone for their input - there's some great ideas for me to consider.

1. On the main issue - unfortunately this is a big disappointment to me, and it's nobody's fault. The Bulldog Bone is designed to work on ropes other than the ones I'm trying to make it work on. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place on this. I can't see my boss replacing the 10 or so ropes we have (mostly blue streak) just for my fancy new climbing device (he has too many bigger things to deal with - jobs, machinery, finances), so the only option for me is to get the right rope for it - which leaves me no option but to take that rope with the bone every time. No problem you would say. Problem is if you are leaving ropes in trees/stems for whatever reason (pulling it over/tag line, ect) - I'm always going to have to take that extra rope up with me for that purpose. I know there is some out there that say never mix rigging and climbing ropes (ie, don't climb on rigging, and vice versa) - while I agree that for the extreme ends of climbing and rigging - you should use different types of ropes - for general (un-extreme) use you can use them for both purposes. Another option would be to get the Hitch Hiker - great product, but it's not the Bone. We do mostly removals and climbing is just one part of what we do; obviously in this case, we can do a lot from the ground, next in the arsenal is the bucket truck (climbers don't sneer - it's an amazing tool) - if these 2 are not options, then we climb.

2. I may reverse the Bone then.

3. Thanks for that great tip TimBr - that's a nice little trick I didn't know. While that would work - I'd prefer less bits of string around (and one less device in the system) - I'd also need to keep replacing it (natures elements would wear it down). That's also a cool idea using the biner beneath the Hitch Hiker - I'll keep it in mind.

Gordon that sounds really good that an enlarged Teardrop hole could accommodate a Revolver gate - I'll give it some consideration before requesting one made and ordered.

4. I'm not going to modify the bottom of the Bone (for less friction) at this point (till I figure out the rope issue).

5. Thanks for the input on the Cotters - now I know the exact size and type to get. I'll also take the spares I have to compare them before buying.

Thank you Gordon and everyone for your help. I'll give the rope issue some thought now.

Leaving your rope in a tree and pulling over trees? ... Never leave a rope in a tree for any reason and pulling trees over and slamming it on your climbing line is irresponsible. Can't say I've never taken a short cut but your climbing line saves your life everyday. It should be treated as your most important tool.

 

[TimBr]

The short version is to use a short piece of Zing-It tied to only one half of your pulley, with the other end tied off fairly tightly to your biner.

3. Thanks for that great tip TimBr - that's a nice little trick I didn't know. While that would work - I'd prefer less bits of string around (and one less device in the system) - I'd also need to keep replacing it (natures elements would wear it down).

Just to clarify, when I say to tie the Zing-It off fairly tightly, I'm really just referring to the knot at the biner. The idea is to have it tight enough that it does not easily slip around on the biner and try to work its way off.

It's ok to have enough slack in the Zing-It to make the system easy enough to work with when you're taking it apart and putting it back together again.

I know being able to use the Revolver biner would be the best scenario. I'm just trying to give you something to work with in the meantime that won't cause you to drop parts that you need.

I don't know if you own or have ever used Zing-It throw line specifically, but that stuff is so strong and tough that it almost seems like alien technology. The idea that I can lean my whole body weight back into such a thin little string without having it break just seems like a ridiculous thing to be able to do, but I do. So to say that Zing-It can't handle the task of preventing a pulley from falling to the ground is just not even a consideration.

I know I'll take some flak for this, but sometimes when I have a tree that I want to do work in repeatedly, I'll leave my Zing-It line in the tree for weeks at a time, just so that it is there when I need it the next time, through the high tie-in point I've put in a lot of work to establish.

In spite of this exposure to the sun and the other elements, and in spite of the fact that I don't hold back on putting my full weight on the line when I'm pulling my climbing lines in, I have never, not once, had a Zing-It line break on me.

Sorry to get on a soap box. All I'm really trying to say is, don't knock oceans' idea for tethering your pulleys until you've tried it. The Zing-It has never once gotten in the way of the proper operation of my pulleys, so far, just for the record.

End of rant.

Tim

 

[rbreesems]

Rec climber here, SRT, bought a BDB from Gordon about a month ago to replace my HH and am loving it. Works exactly like my HH did, except easier to tend and smoother & faster descents (extra fun factor). I am using the 5/8" bollard + 1/2" XTC rope, climbing weight is ~ 180 lb. Just another datapoint for what works very well with the BDB.

 

[TimBr]

Rec climber here, SRT, bought a BDB from Gordon about a month ago to replace my HH and am loving it. Works exactly like my HH did, except easier to tend and smoother & faster descents (extra fun factor). I am using the 5/8" bollard + 1/2" XTC rope, climbing weight is ~ 180 lb. Just another datapoint for what works very well with the BDB.

Great post, full of good information. I like your website. I think they had a whole thread about cat rescues over on the TreeHouse forum. I'll see if I can dig up a link; it was interesting stuff.

You should post here more often, I like your writing style.

Tim

 

[TimBr]

Here's a link to one particular post by a gentleman named Gary, who does cat rescues on occasion, and provides one good technique in his post.

http://masterblasterhome.com/showth...at-rescue-tips&p=548911&viewfull=1#post548911

If you do a search on "cat rescue" there, you'll find a bunch of threads that deal with it in one way or another.

By way of getting this thread back on track, it's cool to hear you talk about how well the Bulldog Bone tends, and how you are able to bomb out of trees with it. It makes it sound like a much higher performance device than I'd imagined at first.

Tim

 

[oldmilltreecare]

Hi 123Craig.
I've read your first post about your BDB woes and questions.
My solution would be a rope that suits the BDB perfectly and keep them together.
If you then need another system for a different type of job, either get another BDB with a different bollard to suit the other rope or, a Hitch Hiker on its own rope.

I did just that.
I now have a BDB on Cougar Blue and a HH on Yale Poison HiVee. Both devices work perfectly on those ropes and for me, it's the best of both worlds.

 

[monkeylove]

123Craig, where are you located at? I run Vortex in my bdb's all day long. Now grant it they are not the run of mill issue but thicker ropes can be used. You might just need some tweaks from Gordon or yourself.

 

[fall_risk]

I know I'll take some flak for this, but sometimes when I have a tree that I want to do work in repeatedly, I'll leave my Zing-It line in the tree for weeks at a time, just so that it is there when I need it the next time, through the high tie-in point I've put in a lot of work to establish.

In spite of this exposure to the sun and the other elements, and in spite of the fact that I don't hold back on putting my full weight on the line when I'm pulling my climbing lines in, I have never, not once, had a Zing-It line break on me.

I just wanted to clarify for the neophytes among us, Tim is not suggesting you climb up a piece of zing-it, he is commenting on it's strength when he's trying to pull a #@$%ed stuck throwball out of the canopy, pull his god-#@$%ed rope through a crotch that looks like it shouldn't be giving him any guff, or do some throwline pruning so he won't have to climb out on that tiny little...@#$%, now we're back to stuck...

Incidentally Tim, it is totally appropriate, in my opinion, to leave your throwline anywhere it will make life easier for you, though in a residential area, it may be prudent to tie your throw cube or bag 8' or 10' high overnight so kids/pets/customer's husbands can't hurt themselves. I also occasionally leave a rigging or pull line in a tree, also tied out of reach, mostly on a two-day removal where we brush out one day and to the wood the following morning (hehe).

Problem is if you are leaving ropes in trees/stems for whatever reason (pulling it over/tag line, ect) - I'm always going to have to take that extra rope up with me for that purpose. I know there is some out there that say never mix rigging and climbing ropes (ie, don't climb on rigging, and vice versa) - while I agree that for the extreme ends of climbing and rigging - you should use different types of ropes - for general (un-extreme) use you can use them for both purposes.

Maybe this belongs in deep and dark, but sure, I've lowered limbs small enough to handle on my tail, used my tail as a 3 to 1 for smallish cables, or rappelled down a pull line to get out of my hooks faster. I even used to climb on a light-duty rigging line once in a blue moon to keep my pretty ropes out of a Picea (young: check, dumb: check), but I feel the need to pile on here.

With 1/2" three strand at $.50 a foot, and various solid 12s barely more expensive, to say nothing of the pittance a skinny less-than-life-support line will cost you, there is just no excuse for a professional to drop logs on climbing lines, much less pull on them with machines (come on, you do too). I'm a contract climber, not a full service tree company, and I have three different half inch ropes dedicated to rigging. Why not budget $50 or $75 a month for rope? I probably spend that much on Wawa diet ice green tea.

We do mostly removals and climbing is just one part of what we do; obviously in this case, we can do a lot from the ground, next in the arsenal is the bucket truck (climbers don't sneer - it's an amazing tool) - if these 2 are not options, then we climb.

Don't let anyone make you feel bad about working from the ground, using a pole tool, or a lift; if they give you any guff, race them through a street tree or parking lot contract and see who profits...and who is dead! OK, dead tired, but still...

 

[123Craig]

Thank you Fall Risk for your honesty.

I want to clarify for everyone that I'm only talking about 2 ropes here; mostly Blue Streak, with occasional True Blue use. To say I'm climbing on a rigging rope, or rigging on a climbing rope - is just words to try and categorize it - we use mostly Blue Streak for both. My safety is my responsibility and I take it very seriously. I'm not going to go into the endless discussion of how we blur the lines between rigging and climbing ropes - it is a very important topic worth discussing endlessly. I'm not here to do that now though. I'm not seeking to convert anyone to my climbing techniques, nor willing to be reprimanded by others despite there being pros and cons on all sides of the issue. I'm here to talk about the Bulldog Bone.

DSMc - I will probably do just that - get the Bone up and running on the right rope!

Thanks TimBr - I actually have some brand new Zing It sitting unopened in the next room - I know you weren't proclaiming it's life support capabilities - just letting us know how strong it is - thanks! I'm actually in Alberta, Canada - so even items like that - I have to think about how brittle they may or may not get in -20 or -30. If someone is about to tell me not to climb in these temperatures - well I'm sure they'll have more than a few good points to make, but again, I'm not here to discuss that right now - ha ha!

Thanks rbreesems - excellent data to be considered. I think I'm around the same weight as you as well.

Thanks oldmilltreecare - good info for both BDB and HH.

Thanks monkeylove - there is more than enough info now on this thread that I can choose from a variety of ropes that will work great with the Bone - vortex will be one of them.

fall_risk - thanks. Buying a single climbing rope is not a problem for me (expense wise - it's totally worth it). The only thing was I wished the BDB would have worked on the Blue Streak - but it doesn't. I haven't been pulling trees over with my climb lines, it might be more appropriate to say I've been climbing on rigging ropes. It's all been Blue Streak for pretty much everything.

MikePowers321 - thanks. Of course if I'm rigging down blocks (and such) - I have 2 lines up there. Though I have many times rappelled down my single rigging/pull line (that I may have used as a climb line to prune/top/limb the tree - Blue Streak again, or sometimes True Blue) - just as fall_risk says - to leave the line in the tree to help pull it over after dealing with all the brush.

Just for fun - I've compared my climbing production rate to the boss in the bucket truck on some jobs where we've been simultaneously working on similar trees. I'd have more luck trying to outrun Usain Bolt - still, it was good to try for a laugh!

Ha ha - now I'm over at 'deep and dark' - having a great laugh at all the rules we occasionally break while completely aware of how serious it actually all is!

 

[RajElectric]

Ahhh Alberta, figures

 

[123Craig]

Ha ha - just because I'm here - doesn't mean I don't come from a long, long ways away...

 

[123Craig]

Rec climber here, SRT, bought a BDB from Gordon about a month ago to replace my HH and am loving it. Works exactly like my HH did, except easier to tend and smoother & faster descents (extra fun factor). I am using the 5/8" bollard + 1/2" XTC rope, climbing weight is ~ 180 lb. Just another datapoint for what works very well with the BDB.

Is this the 16 or 12 Strand XTC? - While I'm not doubting that this rope performs just as you say with the BDB - I'm having a hard time getting my head around the fact that in diameter and construction - it isn't too different than Blue Streak - and yet it performs so well for you.

Did you place the 5/8" bollard in place of the one that came pre-installed on the bone, or does it go on the opposite top link pin before closing the chain link into place?

Just need some help with this. A pic, and/or some more explanation would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[JeffGu]

...it isn't too different than Blue Streak...

16-Strand Yale XTC is polyester core and cover... Blue Streak and most other 16-strand climbing ropes are nylon core and polyester cover.
This might explain the performance difference. I've tried SRT (with Rope Wrench) on both, and the XTC wins that one because it's not as stretchy/bouncy. I was trying it with Samson BRW (same rope as blue streak, different color pattern) and the Yale XTC Fire color pattern. Both ropes were 150' hanks with canopy anchors on the same limb at about 45 feet up. That's not a lot of rope in the system, but I could still tell the difference between them. The BRW was also grabbier and jerkier... I suspect because of the elongation. Hitch cord on both was 10mm Ocean Polyester, Distel hitch.