treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
thats a real nice website.
climbing solo, what are the guidelines?
- Thread starter davepell
- Start date
- Location
- Longmont, CO
It is funny that the thread name is:
Climbing solo, what are the guidelines?
It is not titled: Climbing solo, what is your opinion?
Tom summed it up by putting ANZI's guideline. (An industry standard). There is nothing wrong with this standard. It is a wise practice not to climb alone.
However, since you all are chiming in with your experience/opinions...
For most of the years in business I have been climbing solo. Was it the wisest/safest thing, no. Was it practical for me financially?--Yes.
I never had any major injuries greater than a cut from the good ol' hand saw.
There isn't a greater risk to getting hurt while climbing solo, rather there is a delayed response for rescue (if necessary).
Besides, don't we all climb (solo or in a group) safe to avoid getting hurt?
Climbing solo, what are the guidelines?
It is not titled: Climbing solo, what is your opinion?
Tom summed it up by putting ANZI's guideline. (An industry standard). There is nothing wrong with this standard. It is a wise practice not to climb alone.
However, since you all are chiming in with your experience/opinions...
For most of the years in business I have been climbing solo. Was it the wisest/safest thing, no. Was it practical for me financially?--Yes.
I never had any major injuries greater than a cut from the good ol' hand saw.
There isn't a greater risk to getting hurt while climbing solo, rather there is a delayed response for rescue (if necessary).
Besides, don't we all climb (solo or in a group) safe to avoid getting hurt?
- Location
- Asheville,NC
[ QUOTE ]
When considering risk there are two very important words to run past yourself...
Widow
Orphan
I'm not against risk by any means. When I make a decision to do something that I've scaled as high risk I think through it very carefully. A few years ago I grabbed my Roller Blades and the sack of PPE. by the time I was ready to roll I had on a helmet, elbow pads, wrist pads and knee pads. then I realized that I had on more PPE to play than I wear to work. that was a hard one to balance out but it didn't stop me from 'blading.
[/ QUOTE ]
heck, that can happen driving to the job site. Fear is a good guideline when your sticking your neck out a bit.If I die climbing I think most friends will say " he died doing what he loved" so be it.....better then cancer or car accident or plane crash.....they all add up to widow and orphan too. I swear sometimes we take safety a bit too far...we cannot eliminate risk from what we do. Why do we sugar coat things, must be a mindgame so we don't skeer ourselves outta a climbing career.
When considering risk there are two very important words to run past yourself...
Widow
Orphan
I'm not against risk by any means. When I make a decision to do something that I've scaled as high risk I think through it very carefully. A few years ago I grabbed my Roller Blades and the sack of PPE. by the time I was ready to roll I had on a helmet, elbow pads, wrist pads and knee pads. then I realized that I had on more PPE to play than I wear to work. that was a hard one to balance out but it didn't stop me from 'blading.
[/ QUOTE ]
heck, that can happen driving to the job site. Fear is a good guideline when your sticking your neck out a bit.If I die climbing I think most friends will say " he died doing what he loved" so be it.....better then cancer or car accident or plane crash.....they all add up to widow and orphan too. I swear sometimes we take safety a bit too far...we cannot eliminate risk from what we do. Why do we sugar coat things, must be a mindgame so we don't skeer ourselves outta a climbing career.
- Location
- Montana
There are a lot of good points that were given by both sides of this topic. I don't practice climbing solo. I don't like the thought of a home owner wondering if that is safe and questioning me about it. Owner/operators, that practice makes you look very unprofessional and I believe that it brings your price to a minimum.I have climbed alone as an O/O and was questioned about the legitimacy of my company. Screw that, bad place to be and won't get you any repeat work. Solo Rec. climbing? Just think about your family!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
There are a lot of good points that were given by both sides of this topic. I don't practice climbing solo. I don't like the thought of a home owner wondering if that is safe and questioning me about it. Owner/operators, that practice makes you look very unprofessional and I believe that it brings your price to a minimum.I have climbed alone as an O/O and was questioned about the legitimacy of my company. Screw that, bad place to be and won't get you any repeat work. Solo Rec. climbing? Just think about your family!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't agree on the unprofessional concept of climbing solo. As long as you have the proper ppe and are practicing safe working practices, this should say alot. Also considering the fact that you may not have given the job because adding another well trained/paid/legimate worker may add another 500-1000/day to the price.
For instance I worked alone on a 4 tree removal and was extreemly safe and effective. Then when I left I passed another tree company with nice shinny equipment and five day laborers feeding a chipper with loose clothing, no ppe, and no business any where near that machine.
Who is more unprofessional?
There are a lot of good points that were given by both sides of this topic. I don't practice climbing solo. I don't like the thought of a home owner wondering if that is safe and questioning me about it. Owner/operators, that practice makes you look very unprofessional and I believe that it brings your price to a minimum.I have climbed alone as an O/O and was questioned about the legitimacy of my company. Screw that, bad place to be and won't get you any repeat work. Solo Rec. climbing? Just think about your family!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't agree on the unprofessional concept of climbing solo. As long as you have the proper ppe and are practicing safe working practices, this should say alot. Also considering the fact that you may not have given the job because adding another well trained/paid/legimate worker may add another 500-1000/day to the price.
For instance I worked alone on a 4 tree removal and was extreemly safe and effective. Then when I left I passed another tree company with nice shinny equipment and five day laborers feeding a chipper with loose clothing, no ppe, and no business any where near that machine.
Who is more unprofessional?
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are a lot of good points that were given by both sides of this topic. I don't practice climbing solo. I don't like the thought of a home owner wondering if that is safe and questioning me about it. Owner/operators, that practice makes you look very unprofessional and I believe that it brings your price to a minimum.I have climbed alone as an O/O and was questioned about the legitimacy of my company. Screw that, bad place to be and won't get you any repeat work. Solo Rec. climbing? Just think about your family!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't agree on the unprofessional concept of climbing solo. As long as you have the proper ppe and are practicing safe working practices, this should say alot. Also considering the fact that you may not have given the job because adding another well trained/paid/legimate worker may add another 500-1000/day to the price.
For instance I worked alone on a 4 tree removal and was extreemly safe and effective. Then when I left I passed another tree company with nice shinny equipment and five day laborers feeding a chipper with loose clothing, no ppe, and no business any where near that machine.
Who is more unprofessional?
[/ QUOTE ]
To the letter, this ANSI aspect would cause most new Certified Arborist sole proprieter businesses to fail, and would heavily fuel the worst of the lowballers.
Literal backlash to the rest of education, licencing and certification.
Its like trying to get into outer space without risk.
Simply said, to expect this in most new businesses is pure disregard for reality.
We cannot get to the moon without risk. And arboriculture just happens to be one profession that CANNOT grow, multiply and flourish without a minor additional risk by most new solo arborist businesses - else it would fold or be permanently crippled.
The orphan / widow phrase may dwarf in comparison to: being human or walking out our front door risks gaining more of those than arborists could imagine to produce.
As for insurance, that's more realistic as a financial safety net for a family.
[ QUOTE ]
There are a lot of good points that were given by both sides of this topic. I don't practice climbing solo. I don't like the thought of a home owner wondering if that is safe and questioning me about it. Owner/operators, that practice makes you look very unprofessional and I believe that it brings your price to a minimum.I have climbed alone as an O/O and was questioned about the legitimacy of my company. Screw that, bad place to be and won't get you any repeat work. Solo Rec. climbing? Just think about your family!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't agree on the unprofessional concept of climbing solo. As long as you have the proper ppe and are practicing safe working practices, this should say alot. Also considering the fact that you may not have given the job because adding another well trained/paid/legimate worker may add another 500-1000/day to the price.
For instance I worked alone on a 4 tree removal and was extreemly safe and effective. Then when I left I passed another tree company with nice shinny equipment and five day laborers feeding a chipper with loose clothing, no ppe, and no business any where near that machine.
Who is more unprofessional?
[/ QUOTE ]
To the letter, this ANSI aspect would cause most new Certified Arborist sole proprieter businesses to fail, and would heavily fuel the worst of the lowballers.
Literal backlash to the rest of education, licencing and certification.
Its like trying to get into outer space without risk.
Simply said, to expect this in most new businesses is pure disregard for reality.
We cannot get to the moon without risk. And arboriculture just happens to be one profession that CANNOT grow, multiply and flourish without a minor additional risk by most new solo arborist businesses - else it would fold or be permanently crippled.
The orphan / widow phrase may dwarf in comparison to: being human or walking out our front door risks gaining more of those than arborists could imagine to produce.
As for insurance, that's more realistic as a financial safety net for a family.
- Location
- Asheville,NC
off to climb....by myself......
- Location
- Aarhus, Denmark
Hi.
I have my own small tree care company and I don't have any workers employed. But I newer climb alone! I always have a man on the ground or near by.
It is stupid to feel immortal. Regardless how good and experienced you are, you can always have an accident. It is not always the worst driver, that end up in a car crash!
Last summer I had a pretty serious accident at work. I am glad today, that my buddy where there and could call an ambulance for me.
Right now I am sitting with a broken hand - unable to work.
I fell while I was hiking in the mountains during my summer holliday.
Stay safe.
Peder.
I have my own small tree care company and I don't have any workers employed. But I newer climb alone! I always have a man on the ground or near by.
It is stupid to feel immortal. Regardless how good and experienced you are, you can always have an accident. It is not always the worst driver, that end up in a car crash!
Last summer I had a pretty serious accident at work. I am glad today, that my buddy where there and could call an ambulance for me.
Right now I am sitting with a broken hand - unable to work.
I fell while I was hiking in the mountains during my summer holliday.
Stay safe.
Peder.
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
[ QUOTE ]
Right now I am sitting with a broken hand - unable to work.
I fell while I was hiking in the mountains during my summer holliday.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is too bad. Heal up!
Right now I am sitting with a broken hand - unable to work.
I fell while I was hiking in the mountains during my summer holliday.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is too bad. Heal up!
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
Hi.
I have my own small tree care company and I don't have any workers employed. But I newer climb alone! I always have a man on the ground or near by.
It is stupid to feel immortal. Regardless how good and experienced you are, you can always have an accident. It is not always the worst driver, that end up in a car crash!
Last summer I had a pretty serious accident at work. I am glad today, that my buddy where there and could call an ambulance for me.
Right now I am sitting with a broken hand - unable to work.
I fell while I was hiking in the mountains during my summer holliday.
Stay safe.
Peder.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's probably the best option to be reasonable.
It's unreasonable to expect tree care to flourish by expecting two trained climbers at every job in every new business.
But having a worker nearby is the next best option; at least to make emergency contact.
And that's probably something that half or better of new companies would want anyhow.
I do small / medium pruning of ornamental trees and shrubs, and even for that small stuff, I prefer to have someone helping with debris.
Seems that the less wornout we are, the easier it is to be safe and think clearly.
Hi.
I have my own small tree care company and I don't have any workers employed. But I newer climb alone! I always have a man on the ground or near by.
It is stupid to feel immortal. Regardless how good and experienced you are, you can always have an accident. It is not always the worst driver, that end up in a car crash!
Last summer I had a pretty serious accident at work. I am glad today, that my buddy where there and could call an ambulance for me.
Right now I am sitting with a broken hand - unable to work.
I fell while I was hiking in the mountains during my summer holliday.
Stay safe.
Peder.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's probably the best option to be reasonable.
It's unreasonable to expect tree care to flourish by expecting two trained climbers at every job in every new business.
But having a worker nearby is the next best option; at least to make emergency contact.
And that's probably something that half or better of new companies would want anyhow.
I do small / medium pruning of ornamental trees and shrubs, and even for that small stuff, I prefer to have someone helping with debris.
Seems that the less wornout we are, the easier it is to be safe and think clearly.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Misery loves company, specially on the clean up.....
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
I do small / medium pruning of ornamental trees and shrubs, and even for that small stuff, I prefer to have someone helping with debris.
[/ QUOTE ]
M.D. you do live on the edge! LOL.
I do small / medium pruning of ornamental trees and shrubs, and even for that small stuff, I prefer to have someone helping with debris.
[/ QUOTE ]
M.D. you do live on the edge! LOL.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
This is what ANSI Z133 says:
8.1.2 A second arborist or other worker trained in emergency procedures shall be within visual or voice communication during arboricultural operations above 12 feet (3.65 m) that are not subject to the requirements of subsection 4.2.4.
Mario, you are misinterpreting the standards. I take "other worker trained in emergency procedures" to include a brush-dragging child or a homeowner who can send up my first aid kit from the truck, and who can call 911 if things go really bad.
My worst accident ever happened on the ground on a day my helper didn't show. Wearing PPE, working to standard, but ticked off and careless. Cutting a fallen ash tree, a limb sprung loose and crushed ribs and ruptured spleen. I crawled to the door and told the lady "911", then passed out. BP was 50 when they started transfusing.
So yeah risk is part of our deal but let's read the standards carefully and not make them into more than they are. I still think it is weird that utility guys have looser requirements on ground help, but they do have muscle in those ansi meetings eh?
8.1.2 A second arborist or other worker trained in emergency procedures shall be within visual or voice communication during arboricultural operations above 12 feet (3.65 m) that are not subject to the requirements of subsection 4.2.4.
Mario, you are misinterpreting the standards. I take "other worker trained in emergency procedures" to include a brush-dragging child or a homeowner who can send up my first aid kit from the truck, and who can call 911 if things go really bad.
My worst accident ever happened on the ground on a day my helper didn't show. Wearing PPE, working to standard, but ticked off and careless. Cutting a fallen ash tree, a limb sprung loose and crushed ribs and ruptured spleen. I crawled to the door and told the lady "911", then passed out. BP was 50 when they started transfusing.
So yeah risk is part of our deal but let's read the standards carefully and not make them into more than they are. I still think it is weird that utility guys have looser requirements on ground help, but they do have muscle in those ansi meetings eh?
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
This is what ANSI Z133 says:
8.1.2 A second arborist or other worker trained in emergency procedures shall be within visual or voice communication during arboricultural operations above 12 feet (3.65 m) that are not subject to the requirements of subsection 4.2.4.
Mario, you are misinterpreting the standards. I take "other worker trained in emergency procedures" to include a brush-dragging child or a homeowner who can send up my first aid kit from the truck, and who can call 911 if things go really bad.
My worst accident ever happened on the ground on a day my helper didn't show. Wearing PPE, working to standard, but ticked off and careless. Cutting a fallen ash tree, a limb sprung loose and crushed ribs and ruptured spleen. I crawled to the door and told the lady "911", then passed out. BP was 50 when they started transfusing.
So yeah risk is part of our deal but let's read the standards carefully and not make them into more than they are. I still think it is weird that utility guys have looser requirements on ground help, but they do have muscle in those ansi meetings eh?
[/ QUOTE ]
If the arborist can develop their own emergency procedures, that's more practical.
But when we see the word "trained" in emergency procedures, it tends to connote "training" versus "telling". The connotation almost seems like aerial rescue and other stuff.
Yet, as you pointed out, its not specific - so that's good.
"Within voice communication" seems to imply that a 2 way radio capable of reaching a home base is acceptable.
The EMERGENCY BEACONS that hikers and climbers use - if a climber activates one of those with both hands within a city, would emergency response come? Thats those $500 or so gadgets - forget the technical name, but I want one for hiking.
This is what ANSI Z133 says:
8.1.2 A second arborist or other worker trained in emergency procedures shall be within visual or voice communication during arboricultural operations above 12 feet (3.65 m) that are not subject to the requirements of subsection 4.2.4.
Mario, you are misinterpreting the standards. I take "other worker trained in emergency procedures" to include a brush-dragging child or a homeowner who can send up my first aid kit from the truck, and who can call 911 if things go really bad.
My worst accident ever happened on the ground on a day my helper didn't show. Wearing PPE, working to standard, but ticked off and careless. Cutting a fallen ash tree, a limb sprung loose and crushed ribs and ruptured spleen. I crawled to the door and told the lady "911", then passed out. BP was 50 when they started transfusing.
So yeah risk is part of our deal but let's read the standards carefully and not make them into more than they are. I still think it is weird that utility guys have looser requirements on ground help, but they do have muscle in those ansi meetings eh?
[/ QUOTE ]
If the arborist can develop their own emergency procedures, that's more practical.
But when we see the word "trained" in emergency procedures, it tends to connote "training" versus "telling". The connotation almost seems like aerial rescue and other stuff.
Yet, as you pointed out, its not specific - so that's good.
"Within voice communication" seems to imply that a 2 way radio capable of reaching a home base is acceptable.
The EMERGENCY BEACONS that hikers and climbers use - if a climber activates one of those with both hands within a city, would emergency response come? Thats those $500 or so gadgets - forget the technical name, but I want one for hiking.
I myself removed a dead, broken tree from a roof. The guy tried to cut it down and it went 90 degress off target. A couple of well placed lines with the bigshot and hooked it to the winch(lit my cigar with my other hand). Now the homeowner wants me to pad the bill and split the extra cash from the Ins Co. I told her" I do what I bill for a bill for what I do, now it is time for you to pay the bill for what I did". I made sure to get cash from a shifty eted one like that. Lucky she still has a husbund and I guess I will have to finish the clean up on the job since he won't be useing the chainsaw for awhile.
To do something like this work by yourself and be safe and productive is not something I take for granted. I do not do the job in a manner that appears unprofessional or dangaerous. I do make the homeowner as well as trained arborist say to themselves" What does he have that I don't?. I can see it in thier faces.
To do something like this work by yourself and be safe and productive is not something I take for granted. I do not do the job in a manner that appears unprofessional or dangaerous. I do make the homeowner as well as trained arborist say to themselves" What does he have that I don't?. I can see it in thier faces.
- Location
- Asheville,NC
solo
- Location
- Asheville,NC
- Location
- Anchorage, AK
I own my own business and am the only employee. It is not the safest thing to work alone but out of neccesity it is something I do on close to a daily basis. Insurance costs too much to hire on a second when, this being the first year in business for myself, I am not busy 5 days a week. Workman's Comp is 52 dollars for every 100 you pay employees and me being the only member everything I make half would go to insurance. I like owrking alone because it is calming and a relaxing day, just stinks when you drop your handsaw 60 feet up!!!
New threads New posts
-
test
-
-
KBNest -Midline Attachable SRS Canopy Anchor.
- Started by TreeSteward
- Replies: 1
-
-
-
-
