climbing solo, what are the guidelines?

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Does anyone remember the death of a young tree surgeon in glouctershire in early July? He was climbing and cutting with no other climber on site. He was in the tree for far too long and died up there.

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Any webpages on that renta?
 
Solo = no rescue...Don't bite off more then you can chew. Carry a second rope in a small backpack if you have to bail. SOlo climbing can be very rewarding, I don't work alone but climb alone often. Hell, rec tree climbing is safe. Try some backcountry rock routes if you want to skeer yerself!
 

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As much as I want to make a buck I won't climb and cut alone. There's enough risk in this to avoid the obvious. Blow off the standards and what else goes?
 
working solo for the most part sucks. It is just not very effecient. you always have to end up coming down to get something. The probability of getting your line severly tangled on the ground not allowing you to come down is possible too. Maybe I am somewhat of an anarchist though, in that I believe that rules are good and important up to a certain point.
While as a normal rule, i dont like working alone, I am not going to stop at twelve feet because of ANSI. I guess I do find those arbitrary numbers kind of funny. I picture a bunch of people sitting around a room debating numbers until they come up with one. Its a funny image to me. I am thankful for them in that room. Good for them.

To add on that, when I look back on my life and pick out some of the stupidest things I have done. Several of them involve climbing around alone. Either for fun or for work. I came out of them alive, oddly glad that no one was around to see my stupidity.
 
With some of the crews I worked with I just as well could have been alone. You put the responsiblity of keeping yourself alive and well in your hands alone when you go up. Here is a list of big jobs I did alone(with confidence)

1. In my earlier days I climb my friends locust trees (4 big guys) and dropped deadwood all over the place. No spikes, just rope an saddle, sometimes I would have to come down to untie the lowering line then go back up.

2. Lowered a huge poplar that was leaning into and on other trees. I used 3 lowering lines set in 3 diferent trees.

3. Lowered dead limbs over busy street with a audience while in a tree. Someone ran over my polesaw. I lowered useing rope I bought at home depot over 10 years ago. That rope is exactly the same length now as it was then, I use it for a pull rope.

4.I have pruned big oaks, locust and have done some intricate removals as well.I got caught in some fierce wind in one of those oaks.

5. Once I went to this guys house for a day and dropped tons of 150 foot white pines and spruce. I climbed some to make sure my pull rope was set perfect and hooked em up to the winch.

6. Tons of cabling,ornamental pruning,self lowering when the ground crew is busy, and generally anything else.




I could go on forever

Basically, if you get hurt in a tree depending how bad it is you have to wait a while before someone gets you down. So with that it doesn't matter if there are people on the ground or not.


Also all the jobs I did solo went like clockwork just like I planned beforehand(with the exception of having my polesaw run over, which was run over by the customer in his driveway within the coned off area after I told him I would be working down there. Not one problem besides that.


Some people may say that I am stupid or careless to do it but I have this to say in return: If I am stupid and careless how the heck did I just do what I just did? I really don't take chances, I am not a gambeler and I am afraid to get seriously hurt. I have a sexy wife, an amazing kid and am happy with my life. I do not want to die.
I only say that I feel comfortable climbing alone and that you should have help and having help is the right way. But if you want to test your skills and feel like a god then take it on solo and go diehard, you will love yourself at the end.
 
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...you should have help and having help is the right way. But if you want to test your skills and feel like a god then take it on solo and go diehard, you will love yourself at the end.

[/ QUOTE ]What does this mean? I used to climb alone a lot, and I felt very ungodly, even stupid, when I had to go back down to untie a limb or had to fight to clear a fouled rope.
 
Climbing solo greatly increases the risk of an accident, or fatality.

Here is a simple situation;

1. Rope is snagged at the base of the tree.

2. Climber cuts himself, cannot get down from tree unaided.

End result - Climber dies.

Now, here is the same situation with 2 or more people;

1. Rope is snagged at base of tree

2. Groundsperson sees snagged rope and immediatly untangles it.

3. Climber cuts himself, if he is still able to descend he does so.

4. If the climber cannot descend, groundsperson climbs tree to rescue him.

5. If there is a 3rd person on site, they can phone for back-up medical and help direct the reccue from the ground re assuring both the climber and the rescuer.
 
Hmmm... those were two interesting posts. [That have now been edited]

I climb solo because I have to. I climb solo because sometimes I'm left to work alone by my customer (contract climbing). I climb alone because I like it.

On pruning jobs and some takedowns I need to make every penny of what i charge because I'm working to re-establish myself after losing my life's savings... I can't afford a ground man just to watch my safety while i clean crowns.

Plenty of times I've been working contract and my employer takes off to do something else like bid jobs or something. It just happens that way, I never thought about it as a problem.

I like climbing alone, I have since I was 18 when I got into soloing short 50' rock routes on my home cliffs. It was an exercise in keeping a cool head... extremely rewarding.
When I climb trees alone I'm always roped, always careful and methodical... maybe I'm jaded but it doesn't seem dangerous at all compared to driving or riding a bicycle around here.

When I got into tree work I was pretty amazed at how safety oriented it is, triple locking biners, backed up figure eights and ascenders... it was a lot different than climbing rock where a single screw lock biner was your harness tie in and rapping on old fixed ropes with a figure eight were standard things... lead falls on 9/16" nylon tape with plain caribiners. I gotta say I like the ANSI Z and I follow it pretty close... it makes climbing trees a completely different discipline than rock... barring a major lapse in judgment, falling seems pretty unlikely in trees... being struck or cut are the risks I worry about now.

Everything has risk associated with it. Managing that risk is how we stay safe. Fear is a great motivator and teacher of managed risk. If you pay attention to it, let it guide you without being overwhelmed by it and learn from it... you can consistently do dangerous things safely. I don't want to get hurt... hell, I can't afford it. I don't take risks without KNOWING I can manage them.

I don't think solo climbing is either balls out or anti-social... it's personal. If you want to be balls out, don't use a rope. If you get hurt climbing it doesn't matter if someone is there or not, it's bad for the individual and it's bad for the community.[There was a post stating that climbing solo is anti-social and peculiar to Americans, it's been edited]

If you don't want to climb solo I respect that totally... having kids to think about is the best possible reason there is. When my kids were young I backed off of high risk sport, getting into climbing trees now that they're getting older has filled an empty space in my life. It's also cool because they never knew their dad when he was a wild man... now they're getting some idea of who I used to be. I like doing dangerous things safely, it's one of the most personally rewarding things I know.
 
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NB,

Nice rock and tree pics. Where were they taken?

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Mt WHitney area and the Incredible Hulk/ bridgeport cali.
SOlo is a choice, if it skeers you, don't do it. To be honest, whenever you climb you should treat it as a no rescue situation. A groundsman may not be able to get to you quick enough anyway. The sharp end of the rope is called that for a reason.......
 

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SOlo is a choice, if it skeers you, don't do it. To be honest, whenever you climb you should treat it as a no rescue situation. A groundsman may not be able to get to you quick enough anyway. The sharp end of the rope is called that for a reason.......

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Great points John.
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This is what ANSI Z133 says:

8.1.2 A second arborist or other worker trained in emergency procedures shall be within visual or voice communication during arboricultural operations above 12 feet (3.65 m) that are not subject to the requirements of subsection 4.2.4.

4.2.4 A second qualified line-clearance arborist or line-clearance arborist trainee shall be within visual or voice communication during line-clearing operations aloft when an arborist must approach closer than 10 feet (3.05 m) to any energized electrical conductor in excess of 750 volts (primary conductor) or when
(a) branches or limbs are being removed, which cannot first be cut (with a nonconductive pole pruner/pole saw) to sufficiently clear electrical conductors, so as to avoid contact; and/or
(b) roping is required to remove branches or limbs from such electrical conductors.

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Tom quoting Abbey in your sig in this post probably has him rolling over in his grave!
 
I think you answered your own question. That is the difference between you and me, I didn't have problems with the jobs I did. They went well, safe and I didn't have to split the divedends. I can and will do jobs myself and when I say that I mean I can do it NICE. Although what you can do by yourself has limits it is amazing what you can do if you think it through. Sometimes it is nice not to have anyone bother you all day to.
Sometimes I think about people who have it tougher than me, people who had it rough throughout history. People who lived in agony and died from torture like Jews, Slaves,Indians. People who have been lying half dead on some battlefield in some horrible war. People who die of hunger or worse live in hunger. Climbing alone is not so scary now. I am in control and I can stop when I think I might get hurt. Some people don't get that much.
One way not to drop limbs on your rope is not to leave it on the ground. If I am limbing up evergreens for removal I never let it hang down even with a crew. I don't think it is right for the groundcrew to be tripping on my rope when they are trying to clear the area for me.
As far as lowering goes...well its still vague.
 
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This is what ANSI Z133 says:

8.1.2 A second arborist or other worker trained in emergency procedures shall be within visual or voice communication during arboricultural operations above 12 feet (3.65 m) that are not subject to the requirements of subsection 4.2.4.



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Increases emergency resources and wipes out most new businesses all in one breath, doesn't it?
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Seems to leave very few options to begin business aside from a partnership.

There are quite a few arborists who want sole control over their business.

This could make for its own thread "how to start a business without breaking ANSI's grip.
 
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If an owner has the business setup as a corporation then the owner is an employee of the company and falls under OSHA/ANSI regulations/standards. Do as you choose from the regulatory side, it's your pocketbook.



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Tom,

Good point as far as being a Corp.
 
Here is a good point I think:


If a man can devote 12 or so hours on a job that pays 12 or so hundred with skills and devices he has studied well and can complete that job by himself well within the realm of safety(it may not appear that way to some) what is the big deal.
If I take my car to the dealer their rate is 85 an hour. If I take a picture to the framer his rate is 85 an hour. It is pretty much the same rate in the service industry. Two things can really influence the per hour rate and that it material and employees. In our business the material goes the other way and employees raise the rate quickly.
Do you get stressed at underbidding? I think back when I broke my back for 12 per hour non-stop under the mans eyed doing it his jackass way. That was in 93 or 94 I guess.That's underbidding. I know guys paying their lead guys that today.
Back then I never thought I would own my own tree service much less be this good of a climber. I use good contract climbers when needed and pay them what they ask and let them work under their terms. Those guys love me but its rare that I use em.
Back to my point:
THAT'S A GOOD LIVING- is it not? Last week I chopped down a bunch of trees,ran em threw the chipper, finely pruned some ornamentals, and ground some stumps.I worked on my terms after taking my kid to school at 9am and was back to make her dinner at 4pm. All in all I did about 25 hundred, I do work all the time but so does everybody else. I spent the money I should have used for labor on pot.
 
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